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[Karry]

Right now special levels dont really give you much choice. The rewards are too great for you to NOT go in them. Hence - you always go in special levels.

What if after you visit 2d2 special levels - the difficulty level for the rest of the game went up one point ?
2d2, so you could still safely go into one special level of your choosing, but couldnt know if the difficulty would go up after the next one, or the one after that, and think about taking the risk not only for special level, but for the rest of the game.

[BDR]

Someone has not tried going into and finishing the Arena while doing AoMr.  Try it (on medium for sure it's damn hard since the highest level you can possibly get by then is level 3, and even then those cacos are effing hard to kill without being blown to pieces) and you'll see that you don't *always* go into special levels; sometimes you do say to yourself that it's just not worth the risk (and with the Arena, if you don't finish at least the second wave [where cacos are practically guaranteed to appear] you get only XP as a reward, which won't be much of a trade if you lose a kit/armor to the stuff that shows up).  Or perhaps better yet, the CoS without a shotgun/lots of speed shooting, or the Spider's Lair without a phase device (though those teleporters are probably enough to give you the room needed to take it safely).

Not that this might not still be a good idea, but I don't think we necessarily need this to happen.  Though, one interesting question does come out of this: how many special levels are relatively simple to clean out entirely?

* Arena - not what I'd call simple due to the cacos and three waves you need to deal with before you get a really worthwhile reward, and without a chaingun or cs those cacos are scary, especially on lower difficulty levels when you'll have at most 2 or 3 levels worth of perks

* CC - definitely, the zerk packs make even the cacos into cannon fodder

* Wall - maybe, but only if you have the RL, plenty of ammo, and don't end up with too many Barons coming in range too quickly

* Armory - definitely, toughest enemy here is the demon, which by the time you get here ought to be a piece of cake

* Spider's Lair - not really; teleporting might make it easier but you'll still likely have to deal with multiple arachs in view, which is very likely to get you slain once they wake up

* City of Skulls - maybe, but without a quick trigger finger or a cs/ds, you'll get overrun with skulls pretty fast and be nibbled to death.. by the time you get here, you'll probably have one of these, though

* Mortuary - not truly simple to clear even if you can reach the AVs before they raise an army; those flame pillars *hurt* and every time they raise something it's another distraction

That makes, what?  Two places you're guaranteed to be able to trash and several more that depend on what you're carrying/you've taken as your traits?  Of those two, only the armory IMO is really worth visiting for the item rewards (berserk is nice, but only really useful if you can find things to kill before it goes away, and if you have no RL you can't get the speed mod).

[Karry]

You forgot the one with AoD. That one is skippable in normal game.
The Wall is also skippable, since RL is not guaranteed.

All the others...when i actually GET to Spider Lair and Mortuary - i dont find it that great of a challenge. The maps are made to help you. Ordinary levels sometimes are several times as hard.
And those new arena levels are often than not downright impossible. And those can even get two in a row !!! *shudder*

* Armory - definitely, toughest enemy here is the demon, which by the time you get here ought to be a piece of cake

Cacodemon, not demon.
Actually i forgot, i think it could be B.

* City of Skulls - maybe, but without a quick trigger finger or a cs/ds, you'll get overrun with skulls pretty fast and be nibbled to death..

Nah, you just have to remember where the prize is, and RL all the other rooms.

[Santiago Zapata]

What about Halls of Carnage? (They are extremely easy with their inv globes if I recall correctly)

[BDR]

You forgot the one with AoD.

I knew I was forgetting something.. >_> Yeah, the UC requires melee ability, and it only rewards melee ability anyway.

All the others...when i actually GET to Spider Lair and Mortuary - i dont find it that great of a challenge.

Have you tried doing Spider's Lair without using the teleporters?  I have, and actually beat it a couple times that way.  Second time nearly killed me, though, and I'm afraid to try such a feat again.  Also, if you take too long on the Mortuary, good luck clearing out the army the AVs summon while you're out of sight.  I say if anything raise the difficulty level in those places rather than raise the difficulty in the normal game as a result of clearing them.

Cacodemon, not demon.
Actually i forgot, i think it could be B.

I've never seen an O or a B on the Armory.  Maybe it's because I've mostly only played up to that point on Medium difficulty, but the toughest enemy I've seen there that actually fires things are a couple imps and the toughest overall are the demons.  Even if there are hell knights or BOH's on that level when you go to H or UV, by that time you've probably already had to deal with dozens more and so by then, you're either a dead man walking or know exactly how to slay such things in number and thus will have no trouble killing a few more (though you could have a slightly harder time keeping the rewards from going bye-bye due to explosions and such).

Nah, you just have to remember where the prize is, and RL all the other rooms.

If I weren't afraid of destroying items so much, I'd use the RL a lot more often.  It's hard to rationalize its use IMO when you could for all you know be winning the battles with it but lose the war because an item or three that could have helped you survive an unexpected situation or even just make your life substantially easier was blown up right along with that BOH or Cacodemon.  But maybe that's just a dysfunctional mentality on my end... fortunately in AoMr you can't use them anyway. :P

What about Halls of Carnage? (They are extremely easy with their inv globes if I recall correctly)

Ah, that's another one I forgot.  Well, I suppose the Supercharge Globes do make things simple enough.. though when you have no RL it's not possible to get anything out of it besides the sergeants.

[Karry]

fortunately in AoMr you can't use them anyway. :P

In AoMr you dont have to, its several times easier than a normal game, you can just pull the lever and shoot them all to death at once.

Have you tried doing Spider's Lair without using the teleporters?

Now, THAT would be hard, thats true.

I say if anything raise the difficulty level in those places rather than raise the difficulty in the normal game as a result of clearing them.

That would be interesting too. Gradually increasing the special levels difficulty as a result of clearing them. And anyway, quoting Tarn Adams : "Having more options is never a bad thing."

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Actually I have really a bad opinion about any mechanisms that increase difficulty in-game -- mainly because IMHO that feature completely destroyed Oblivion.

[Karry]

mainly because IMHO that feature completely destroyed Oblivion.

You say it like there was anything worthy to destroy in the first place.