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Discussion on game development

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Kornel Kisielewicz:
And, as something "out of the blue" in this discussion, a screenshot of "something" that happens on my HD recently :

Rabiat:

--- Quote from: Derek ---Wow, software that crashes before it reaches v1.0?  Incredible! ;)
--- End quote ---

That was my response to the observation that "DoomRL is very stable". I never said that DoomRL was supposed to be stable. Crashes and bugs are inherent to the development process, and I think Kornel's doing a great job at developing the game.


--- Quote from: Derek ---Honestly, show some respect for the author of the games you play on his own forum and do not question his skill as a programmer when it's completely irrelevant.
--- End quote ---

I hope this wasn't aimed at my quote in particular, because it's as irrelevant to the discussion as the "1337 h4x0r" comments.


--- Quote from: Picklish ---Karry, your argument seems to boil down to this: games in some genres are more complex, therefore people who work on them are better coders.
--- End quote ---

I agree, though I think you failed to capture the acidic overtones. ;)


--- Quote from: Picklish ---Does anybody else but me feel like coder is a pejorative word or at least a bit myopic?
--- End quote ---

I don't think so, but I'm not a native speaker of English. Coding equals programming in my vocabulary.


--- Quote from: Santiago Zapata ---Anyhow...I don't want to hype the difficulty of developing a roguelike compared to another genres... it is an entirely different endeavour; development and game design skills are fuelled by willpower instead of money when you develop this kind of games.. thus, profficience in programming is on a secondary layer when compared to willpower and capacity to complete playable products.
--- End quote ---

I agree. I've made several attempts at developing a roguelike, but never managed to release one. The critical point where I seem to get stuck every time isn't technical at all. After I've made a nearly complete framework, including text/map displays, level generators, collections of monsters and items, LOS, FOV, AI, file I/O, basically the game engine, I get stuck at creating content and storyline. I used to think it was something I just wasn't very good at, but the same problem seems to haunt several unfinished RL projects. Actually finishing a roguelike does require a lot of willpower and creativity, and has little or nothing to do with being a decent programmer -- or perhaps you could say I suck as a developer.


--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz ---And, as something "out of the blue" in this discussion, a screenshot of "something" that happens on my HD recently
--- End quote ---

OMG that looks so much easier than your roguelikes. ;)

Nice way to make a point though. (y)

Adral:
Hmm, I go away for a (big) while and when I come back I find everybody took out their Heavy Flamers...

Anyway, on this "omg i r l33t3r then u lol" discussion, I think coming up with a playable game is a great endeavor who many people do not manage to accoplish. Whether this game is a RL or any other kind of game is fairly irrelevant, because if you are doing something people are enjoying playing, it means you are a successful developer (because to develop a game there is much more than coding, I think).

Yes, I do not know the intrincacies of any genre, as I have never programmed a game myself (although I plan to start a project soon, if everything goes well), but I guess every style has its nitpicks. And, from a "perceived complexity" point of view, I think RLs might perfectly be among the most complicated games there are. I know lots of failed roguelikes, be it for the lack of content or gameplay, and so coming up with a successful one is no easy task, I think. The sheer complexity of interactions which most of this games show is far beyond what other games show (although that other games might have graphics, realistic physics or whatever). Right now I cannot think of a commercial game which so much detail as Nethack, for instance.

This, however, does not mean I think coding other kind of games is "easy": as I said, every genre has it peculiarities, and another genre, like maybe 4X strategy, might perfectly be "harder" to code than a roguelike. However, I do not think a generalization like "X genre requires more programming skills than Y" is a valid argument, as the ability to come with a *good* game is which is difficult, from my point of view, and not merely reaching a playable state.

Sorry if any of this has already been said, I just wanted to make my point. So thumbs up for all the developers out there which provide us games (preferably if those games are both free and Linux-compatible :P), it is a task I admire a lot ;).

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