General > Off Topic
Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
DisaffectedBeta:
Played a bit more. Died a lot. One thing I like about ranged attackers is that you can just sit there and hold the shoot button until the creature dies. When it dies, the thing instantly stops, unlike with a melee, where when you're done you go crazy-scooting into a wall.
I tried out ADOM for the first time today. It had me wishing it was more random, like in Dwarf Fortress, but it seems good. After being spoiled by easier interfaces in Doom and Frozen Depths, though, it's difficult for me to sift through screens, skills, and keymap screens.
Rabiat:
--- Quote from: Karry ---ADoM has it.
--- End quote ---
I know ADOM punishes the player for level scumming in some places, but to my knowledge there's no protection against save scumming. Could you explain what you mean by 'it punishes cheating'?
--- Quote from: Karry ---ADoM has everything.
--- End quote ---
Except active development or available source code, unfortunately.
--- Quote from: zaimoni ---Hengband made it work. (...) I suppose one could always splice in Jeff Lait's Save Scummer to get integrated detection.
--- End quote ---
You mean it has good protection against save scumming, or in-game punishment? And AFAIK Save Scummer is a proof of concept, not a functional protection/detection method. Anyway, my remark was not about the quality of protection.
--- Quote from: DisaffectedBeta ---Played a bit more. Died a lot. One thing I like about ranged attackers is that you can just sit there and hold the shoot button until the creature dies.
--- End quote ---
And there's no relation between holding down buttons and dying a lot? ;)
--- Quote from: DisaffectedBeta ---I tried out ADOM for the first time today. It had me wishing it was more random, like in Dwarf Fortress, but it seems good. After being spoiled by easier interfaces in Doom and Frozen Depths, though, it's difficult for me to sift through screens, skills, and keymap screens.
--- End quote ---
It takes a while to get the hang of ADOM, but it's very rewarding once you do. You'll have lots of randomness once you get survival down (actually the game is dangerously random in some places). On the other hand, the fixed plot elements and quests will take years to discover if you don't want to read spoilers. And since you've admitted you're not immortal in real life, you may have to spend 20 hours per day on the game for 30 months straight, or consult Andy Williams' ADOM Guidebook. ;)
DisaffectedBeta:
Well, my point was, if you hold down in melee, you go running past the creature once it drops. In ranged it actually stops and asks you what's wrong with you for hitting shoot or target when there are no enemies onscreen.
As long as the guidebook marks spoilers I guess I can check it out.
zaimoni:
--- Quote from: Rabiat on July 25, 2007, 01:18 ---
--- Quote from: Karry ---ADoM has it.
--- End quote ---
I know ADOM punishes the player for level scumming in some places, but to my knowledge there's no protection against save scumming. Could you explain what you mean by 'it punishes cheating'?
--- End quote ---
ADOM's monster power reacts to how many of a given type you've killed already, even in the normal areas. Save-scumming tends to drive this up.
--- Quote from: Rabiat on July 25, 2007, 01:18 ---
--- Quote from: zaimoni ---Hengband made it work. (...) I suppose one could always splice in Jeff Lait's Save Scummer to get integrated detection.
--- End quote ---
You mean it has good protection against save scumming, or in-game punishment? And AFAIK Save Scummer is a proof of concept, not a functional protection/detection method. Anyway, my remark was not about the quality of protection.
--- End quote ---
In-game punishment (one room, no stairs out). It has some backup procedure (first-tier is the *.lok file that should not be in Angband 3.0.8 when it comes out "shortly"). I haven't checked the source code, but there is enough dead space in the Angband-style save format that "when recent saves were" statistics could be stuffed in.
I know that Save Scummer is a proof-of-concept. But, after allowing for combinatoric grouping (equivalent results downstream), it will provide a heuristic approach in conjunction with an RNG audit trail.
Karry:
--- Quote ---ADOM's monster power reacts to how many of a given type you've killed already, even in the normal areas. Save-scumming tends to drive this up.
--- End quote ---
You're wrong, i meant a totally different thing.
Basically, if ADoM detects (or thinks) something is wrong with the savefile - it gives you some message after load, and turn every damn monster totally unbeatable. All monsters hit extremely hard, and you virtually cant hit them at all. You wont live long, thats for sure.
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