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[Kornel Kisielewicz]

1: A bird doesn't have much HP's y'know. Also, if we're talking 'bout real shotties here, bear in mind the difference between scatter shells and solid slugs.

2,3: If you beat the game with a knife, or on Nightmare! THEN I'll believe you have the right to judge better than Blade on wether something is weak or not :P.

[007bistromath]

1: A bird doesn't have much HP's y'know. Also, if we're talking 'bout real shotties here, bear in mind the difference between scatter shells and solid slugs.

I'm talking about scatter shells, dude. You don't hunt birds with slugs, I'm pretty sure those are mainly for target shooting and big game. The "scatter" is not really that wide. The numbers I get from Wikipedia are 2-1/2 feet wide at 63 feet away.

2,3: If you beat the game with a knife, or on Nightmare! THEN I'll believe you have the right to judge better than Blade on wether something is weak or not :P.

My assessment was before Triggerhappy, which I never found because I stopped taking SoaB when I found out it was broken. If I had known it was there, (thought it had been removed, since it's not in the wiki) I probably would've won by now. @_@

[Blade]

2: Shotguns are not weak. If you make them anymore powerful, the double shotgun will basically be a BFG with a hundred shots worth of ammo.

If they are not weak then why there are so few shotgun YAVPs? Why everybody are using chainguns, when they say that they liked shotguns in original DooM more?

3: Shotguns are already weak enough at distance that it can be a tough choice between them and chainguns. Make their damage scale anymore, and you'll have to carry both around. I don't know about you, but there's not enough room in my backpack for that.

I'm inclining to original DooM concept: shotty there fires some king of solid slugs(it have scattering, but not so bad, so it hits pretty well on long distances), and deals approximately same damage on both short and long distances, while double shotty fires lead, so it's only useful on short distance, but it deals REALLY great damage. And they both are using the same ammo. Combat shotty could be as it is now, anyway after appearence of Shottyman it don't have any advantages(except 4 more shells that you could carry in it)). As the result shotgun player should carry both shotty and double shotty, first to deal on long distance, and second to turn around corners.))

[007bistromath]

Yeah, yeah, I get the point, I already said the reason I thought the double shotty won is because I couldn't find TH. Hush. :p

[Potman]

I think it's shotgun that should stay as it is, while combat shotgun should get way less spread. It is pretty much a combat shotgun in the original Doom, after all. Double shotgun should get more pellets, and maybe some more damage as well.

Also I reckon combat double shotgun would be nice, although a tad overpowered.

[007bistromath]

I don't think there's really anything about the current shotgun mechanics that represents "pellets." They all seem to do their damage uniformly throughout a cone-shaped area.

"Combat double shotgun" doesn't exist, doubles are always break-open action as far as I know. Even if it did, there's no real reason it's any better than the regular one since, if you're going to bother with one of those at all, you'll probably have Shottyman.

[Potman]

if you're going to bother with one of those at all, you'll probably have Shottyman.

And you yourself said shotguns weren't underpowered?

[007bistromath]

Without considering Triggerhappy, it isn't the damage that's the problem. The damage is great. It's the reloading. Shottyman removes that problem.

[Potman]

But it doesn't remove the problem of getting close, which can be difficult when you're being fired by three Arachnotrons or whatnot. Shotgun doesn't do squat from afar.

[007bistromath]

I never really had a problem with that. Something which was big enough that the shotgun wouldn't help from the distance I was at usually gets a rocket in the face anyway.