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Author Topic: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!  (Read 14143 times)

Kornel Kisielewicz

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Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« on: November 18, 2007, 20:50 »

It is taking so long, I know. There's a graphical version in the works, but I don't know how much time it will take. To ease the wait, I release a halfway-to-0.9 version of Berserk!. Head to the downloads section and check it out!

Balance may be off in this one, for there were no beta versions, I just decided I need to break my silence and release something.

List of changes:
-- [add] Save and Load for non-Massacre modes
-- [add] freezing condition (lowers speed and defense)
-- [add] Snow, River and Bridge arenas
-- [add] three snow-specific monsters with new skills
-- [add] hapless townpeople in towns
-- [add] Demons!
-- [add] random quotes for every night
-- [mod] lowered whirlwind cost
-- [mod] move cost differs depending on terrain for player only
-- [mod] additional 50% miss chance for firing at running characters
-- [mod] Berserking re- and degeneration dependant on killing stuff

The new monsters are fun, but may not be balanced enough. Also the new berserker gauge may be a bit underpowered.

Warning -- the replays WON'T work with saves AT ALL (best case you'll get a wierd try of play :P).

I don't know wether the score file is compatible. I guess it is, but don't hold be by my word here -_-.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 20:51 »

Oh, and I really need you all to playtest it -- I'm quite sure to do a 0.8.6 (stable) release before I start work on 0.9.

BTW, Derek, are you still with me on this one? :)
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Malek Deneith

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2007, 04:50 »

Wooot new Berserk! The new arenas sound interesting.
* Malek Deneith downloads
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2007, 05:13 »

Doublepost for the glory of Emperor!

Okay, I did a quick playthrough. I didn't manage to see the new maps but I have other questions:

-Was the monster generation upped or something? The first night I got literally *swarmed* by Imps and Bulldemons - and while the presenc of the former was probably Ian's fault the number of the later wa frightening.

-Also regarding "-- [mod] Berserking re- and degeneration dependant on killing stuff" - I hope this doesn't mean further dimnish of Willpower's usability? (And yes Berserk seems weaker now - it seems to load very slowly - even taking in account my rusty player skills - usually it started so late that I had to Fairydust almost immidetly due to low HP)
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 05:18 »

I don't think the generation was upped. At least not on purpose. Might have been a slip :P

Berserking now re- and de-charges only if you are killing stuff. Willpower *should* help. But I don't worry much about Willpower being useless, because once classes are in, it will have a very natural use for the Witch.
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2007, 10:58 »

Excellent!

I'm downloading and compiling it right now. I hope to get some free time to play it, though, since I'm up to the neck with work from the university this term :-/.

Thank you for the release!
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 11:05 »

For all people compiling from source -- remember that you need Valkyrie from the SVN!
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 15:37 »

+ Woooot! :D

Cant thank you enough for the adding the in-game help! I tried Berserk! earlier but I just couldnt figure out what was going on so I left it, but now now I see why everyone raves about it :). And Id be more then happy to play-test Berserk! for you (Ill start posting as soon as I sift through all the post that seem relevant on the forum). Is there anything you want us to screw around with in particular?

Anyway, love the new Berserk :D (not that I would be able to tell whats new or not but still :p)!

Edit: Oohh... this is embarrassing.

Just downloaded Berserk 0.8 so I can see whats new and so on. Turns out there already was an in-game help. Conclusion - I am plain retarded. Never mind.

*Hides under the table*
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 09:21 by tisiphone »
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2007, 11:37 »

*laughs*

You have the exact list of changes listed :). In-game help was since 0.8 thanks to Fingerzam (damn, I forgot to credit him properly).

As for testing -- I especialy need feedback on the new monsters (snow monsters and demons).
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2007, 12:48 »

Running through it right now! Yay, new Berserk! version! ^_^x

The in-game text refers to your character alternately as "Gatsu" and "Guts". I know they're the same one-maniac-army, but someone else might get confused.

The messages displayed for the unique demons (Ian, AbDa, TurIan, and the others I probably haven't run into yet) should read "You hit [demon's name]!" instead of "You hit the [demon's name]!". Same thing for when they die- use "[demon's name] dies!" instead of "The [demon's name] dies!"

The Ice Devils give a new status effect (Freezing), but i can't really tell any difference while I'm affected by it. Does it affect damage?

Hoe noes, Yetis (or is it the Ice Devils?) create Blizzards! The Blizzards seem like useless sword fodder to me- easily killed in two or three hits.

More to come as I delve further into Endless/Massacre mode.
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Derek

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 08:50 »

Still with you, of course! ;)

Just mailed you... send me a list of new graphics you need and I'll get on it asap.
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 09:34 »

That sounds cool! I'll try it... =D
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2007, 09:39 »

That sounds cool! I'll try it... =D

Oh and I know something that you should adjust, Kornel. You see, when playing the game fullscreen and you have to choose between "endless" and "massacre", it's not very clear what mode you have selected. So you'll either have to make the unselected text a little more grey, or the selected text a little more white.

BTW, it's my birthday today ^_^
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 09:41 by Mrazerty »
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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2007, 16:09 »

Strange, I dont have this problem... Its pretty easy to tell the difference on my pc.
Quote
BTW, it's my birthday today ^_^

Happy Birthday! :)


On to my play-testing results so far*:

  • I found a bit of a bug to do with the missile weapons. Basically, sometimes ranged attacks get blocked by terrain similar to what happens in DooMRL when you aim through a wall.
Code: [Select]
......
  #@..
i.....
    So when I try to fire my crossbow at the imp all my bolts hit the stone :( which isnt cool. Especially as in Berserk! you cant get more ammo nearly as easily as you could in DooMRL. I guess that this isnt easy to fix so I got some suggestions for alternative solutions:
    a) Make the intended path of the shot known to the player by drawing a line with * before she/he shoots like in DooMRL or
    b) If possible change the X to a different colour or letter when the path is blocked.
    Not sure if thats any help.

    • Also Ive experimented with the frozen levels a bit and I like what the icy water does. I think it adds nice bit of variation in terrain. Im not entirely sure what the Frozen points mean or how they differ from Pain, if at all, but it seems, balance-wise, reasonable enough.  A question though, does it affect enemies as well? It could make for some interesting tactics if it does, though I could see why you wouldnt want that. Im not a fan of Ice though. It just seems to be a bit annoying and not much else... Maybe instead of throwing you from one space to another it could increase the effect of knock-back? So it could be used tactically in combination with the cannon or just to keep slow monsters like Yeti at bay for longer. Just an idea.

    • On a more minor point: when told to move in to a helpless townsfolk you get a message saying Let them live a little longer. Now, I only know Berserk through a gore-maniac of a friend and you mentioned a rich story when describing Berserk soo I guess Im not the wisest on this subject but isnt that a bit unlike Guts? I mean, I remember him going through some *huge* beatings just to make sure some random passer-bys doesnt die. Thought Id bring that up.

    Overall it seems pretty stable to me so far. Much liking Berserk! :)

    *I havent got through all the posts on the Berserk! forum yet so Im really sorry if I end up embarrassing my self again. Just ignore if it's nonsense.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2007, 16:28 »

The in-game text refers to your character alternately as "Gatsu" and "Guts". I know they're the same one-maniac-army, but someone else might get confused.
The official Dark Horse translation is Guts, and I guess I will stick to it.

The messages displayed for the unique demons (Ian, AbDa, TurIan, and the others I probably haven't run into yet) should read "You hit [demon's name]!" instead of "You hit the [demon's name]!". Same thing for when they die- use "[demon's name] dies!" instead of "The [demon's name] dies!"
Yeah, I know, I forgot to implement that properly :).

The Ice Devils give a new status effect (Freezing), but i can't really tell any difference while I'm affected by it. Does it affect damage?
Nope. It affects defense, and more importantly it directly affects speed (Freezing -50 means -50% speed). I nerfed it just before release, because two blizzards could kill you easily, but it seems I nerfed it too much :P.

Hoe noes, Yetis (or is it the Ice Devils?) create Blizzards! The Blizzards seem like useless sword fodder to me- easily killed in two or three hits.
Blizzards create themselves. These monsters are created single, but split in two if they have enough HP. But it seems I nerfed them too much before release :).

Oh and I know something that you should adjust, Kornel. You see, when playing the game fullscreen and you have to choose between "endless" and "massacre", it's not very clear what mode you have selected. So you'll either have to make the unselected text a little more grey, or the selected text a little more white.
*sigh* that unfortunately depends on the settings of your console :/. I may provide a preloader for windows to fix the colors.

BTW, it's my birthday today ^_^
Happy birthday!

Still with you, of course! ;)
Just mailed you... send me a list of new graphics you need and I'll get on it asap.
Okay, I'll reply ASAP -- I need some sleep right now xP.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2007, 16:45 »

    I found a bit of a bug to do with the missile weapons. Basically, sometimes ranged attacks get blocked by terrain similar to what happens in DooMRL when you aim through a wall.
    [/list]
    Code: [Select]
    ......
      #@..
    i.....
      So when I try to fire my crossbow at the imp all my bolts hit the stone :( which isnt cool. Especially as in Berserk! you cant get more ammo nearly as easily as you could in DooMRL. I guess that this isnt easy to fix so I got some suggestions for alternative solutions:
    *sigh* One of these days I'll write a new targeting code for my roguelikes, and stop reusing the same old one -_-. But I guess now I might just tweak the "forgivingness" of the los calculation during shooting.

    Also Ive experimented with the frozen levels a bit and I like what the icy water does. I think it adds nice bit of variation in terrain. Im not entirely sure what the Frozen points mean or how they differ from Pain, if at all, but it seems, balance-wise, reasonable enough.  A question though, does it affect enemies as well? It could make for some interesting tactics if it does, though I could see why you wouldnt want that. Im not a fan of Ice though. It just seems to be a bit annoying and not much else... Maybe instead of throwing you from one space to another it could increase the effect of knock-back? So it could be used tactically in combination with the cannon or just to keep slow monsters like Yeti at bay for longer. Just an idea.
    As for frozen, see post above. I'll make it stronger though :P. It doesn't affect enemies, because I assumed they are deamons, and used to this kind of environment (especialy the ice ones).

    On a more minor point: when told to move in to a helpless townsfolk you get a message saying Let them live a little longer. Now, I only know Berserk through a gore-maniac of a friend and you mentioned a rich story when describing Berserk soo I guess Im not the wisest on this subject but isnt that a bit unlike Guts? I mean, I remember him going through some *huge* beatings just to make sure some random passer-bys doesnt die. Thought Id bring that up.
    * Kornel Kisielewicz laughs maniacaly.

    Well, let me pull out some quotes by Guts :

    "If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk."
    "Do whatever you want now. But if you disturb me, I'll kill you."

    And maybe the piece of dialogue directly from the manga that almost directly answers your question:
    Puck : "You mean you're planning to drag all the townspeople into this?!"
    Guts : "I don't care. All I wanna do is find that bastard and kill him. I don't care about anything else. Anyone who dies because they get caught up in someone else's fight is a small fry who doesn't have the strength to survive in the first place."

    Yeah, and he acts on this. To me it's one of the beauties of Berserk -- the main character is no goody-goody evil, but almost as mad and evil as the evil he fights with. "For who fights with monsters must watch, not to become a monster himself" as Nietzsche wrote. Guts is driven to survive only by his hate and need of revenge, he looses sight of everything else. That's why it's Berserk after all...

    ... sure, somewhere deep down in his soul there are still compassion and other values, but they are just a faint light compared to the darkness within him. And the moments that he shows those feelings are really rare. Watching him fight most people would see no difference between him and the demons ;].

    Overall it seems pretty stable to me so far. Much liking Berserk! :)
    Thanks!

    I much recommend you give the anime, and then the manga a chance :)[/list]
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    Kornel Kisielewicz

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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #16 on: November 22, 2007, 18:03 »

    Hey Kornel,

    I'd just like to say thanks for this awesome Roguelike. You actually got me started on watching the Berserk anime. It's really cool. :)
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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #17 on: November 25, 2007, 10:47 »

    Sorry for a slow reply, silly real life got in the way :p.

    Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz
    As for frozen, see post above. I'll make it stronger though :P. It doesn't affect enemies, because I assumed they are deamons, and used to this kind of environment (especialy the ice ones).

    Thanks for the info :). And I think your right in buffing the freeze effect a bit although Im not sure if ice daemons need it but, hey, well see. Oh and the bit about the enemies not being effected by cold does make a lot of sense now come to think about it. Anyway, if you did change it, it would probably encourage camping as water doesnt get destroyed so its probably for the best (although you could counter camping by making every turn spent waiting freezing you but whatever).

    Something else I noticed about frozen arenas is that freezing doesnt effect you while berserking. Im a bit curious if thats intended or not as it seems a bit strange to me. Basically, I see freezing as a case of armour being physically frozen together making it hard to move rather then a psychological pain that stops you from concentrating. Then again Im a n00b at Berserk! knowledge (see below).

    Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz
    * Kornel Kisielewicz laughs maniacaly.

    Well, let me pull out some quotes by Guts :

    "If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk."
    "Do whatever you want now. But if you disturb me, I'll kill you."

    And maybe the piece of dialogue directly from the manga that almost directly answers your question:
    Puck : "You mean you're planning to drag all the townspeople into this?!"
    Guts : "I don't care. All I wanna do is find that bastard and kill him. I don't care about anything else. Anyone who dies because they get caught up in someone else's fight is a small fry who doesn't have the strength to survive in the first place."

    Yeah, and he acts on this. To me it's one of the beauties of Berserk -- the main character is no goody-goody evil, but almost as mad and evil as the evil he fights with. "For who fights with monsters must watch, not to become a monster himself" as Nietzsche wrote. Guts is driven to survive only by his hate and need of revenge, he looses sight of everything else. That's why it's Berserk after all...

    ... sure, somewhere deep down in his soul there are still compassion and other values, but they are just a faint light compared to the darkness within him. And the moments that he shows those feelings are really rare. Watching him fight most people would see no difference between him and the demons ;].

    Wow, I didnt really think Guts was *that* much of a crazy bastard... as I said, I dont really know that much about Berserk! but, wow. I mean, I remember him impaling some poor kid to a wall but even then he seemed reasonably upset about it... wow.

    *starts being afraid of the @*

    P.S. there seems to be some forum bug because I cant see the I much recommend you give the anime, and then the manga a chance :) bit unless I try to scroll down with my mouse wheel. Plus there is a horizontal slide bar but nothing to extra when I use it :S.

    P.P.S. I probably will take a better look at the manga Berserk! at some point, the Roguelike has certainly sparked my interest in it :).
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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #18 on: December 01, 2007, 15:36 »

    More thoughts after playing some:
    -I keep my statement about Berserking beeing underpowered. Before it was there when needed most - now it's hard to get, and rarely is in time. I'd realy prefer having it old way
    -I tried out Bridge and River maps in Massacre and I'm underwhelmed - those levels are plain b o r i n g visually. What we could use is some kind of swamp level - perhaps swamp would slow down AND have a chance to immobilize if your unlucky... and I'm thinking skeletons should spawn on swamp from the start even without wraiths (this could lead to some NASTY surprises)... maby diffrent kind of skeletons too?
    -Frozen maps are quite cool (pun intended). Only thing I'm unsure about are Yetis - they seem like toned-down mandragoras. Perhaps someone could come up with more unique ability for them..
    -Talents! I think that it is time to remove dust from our lurkers and force them into labor - we need more, more, MORE traits: right now we habe only 2 paths available (sweep/whirlwind way or impale/jump way) and sweep/whirlwind one is *far* superior
    -How about special levels in endless? Let's say that every X days player would have a chocie - follow to next day normally OR venture to special place and take challenge (think of it as exploring some old ruins or something). The risks should be high (map with every square inch covered with beasts, map with lots of bodies and several wraiths, map with several demons) but so should be the reward (extra stat point, extra items of some kind, possibly going over the normal maximum, maby extra random trait)

    Hmm... that seems all that I had in mind for the post... :)
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    Kornel Kisielewicz

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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #19 on: December 01, 2007, 16:36 »

    More thoughts after playing some:
    -I keep my statement about Berserking beeing underpowered. Before it was there when needed most - now it's hard to get, and rarely is in time. I'd realy prefer having it old way
    I know, but remember that once classes come in, Berserking will be only for the Berserker, so I can't have it being something that's completely essential for gameplay. Treat it as a bonus, not a granted thing. But I'd like to hear others comment on it too.

    -I tried out Bridge and River maps in Massacre and I'm underwhelmed - those levels are plain b o r i n g visually. What we could use is some kind of swamp level - perhaps swamp would slow down AND have a chance to immobilize if your unlucky... and I'm thinking skeletons should spawn on swamp from the start even without wraiths (this could lead to some NASTY surprises)... maby diffrent kind of skeletons too?
    Not much more boring than Plains I guess. But they'll probably be merged with plains once I add more arenas. Yeah, a swamp would be neat, but that'd mean more sprites for Derek to draw :P.

    -Frozen maps are quite cool (pun intended). Only thing I'm unsure about are Yetis - they seem like toned-down mandragoras. Perhaps someone could come up with more unique ability for them..
    If someone has an idea for yetis, bring it on! Maybe their hits should also induce freezing? (Freezing will be enpowered!)

    -Talents! I think that it is time to remove dust from our lurkers and force them into labor - we need more, more, MORE traits: right now we habe only 2 paths available (sweep/whirlwind way or impale/jump way) and sweep/whirlwind one is *far* superior
    Oh yeah, we need those, lurkers come out!

    -How about special levels in endless? Let's say that every X days player would have a chocie - follow to next day normally OR venture to special place and take challenge (think of it as exploring some old ruins or something). The risks should be high (map with every square inch covered with beasts, map with lots of bodies and several wraiths, map with several demons) but so should be the reward (extra stat point, extra items of some kind, possibly going over the normal maximum, maby extra random trait)

    This will happen, but in the future -- my current aim is the campaign mode, and some features added to the campaign mode will make it into endless.
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    Malek Deneith

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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #20 on: December 01, 2007, 17:04 »

    Posting request reminder on demand:
    -remove "paper walls" effect - i.e. bulldemons, mandragoras and such should be able to punch through walss... imps and beasts shouldn't or at least shouldn't do it so easy.
    -pain gets carried over between nights albiet lessened it seems (was about -7 at the end of night before, had -3 at beggining of next night)
    -after killing spore in 3rd stage of "growing" an wall-square appeared in place of it ('l'ooking yealded "stones" description. the map was one of "forest" ones, so no such tiles should be there)
    -default target procedure is flawed - when trying to fire an knife from 3 targets one of which was tile away, second was two tiles away and third was  to 8 tiles away, the last one was chosen as default target
    « Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 18:05 by Malek Deneith »
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    Inquisition - saving your soul, one bolter shell at a time.
    Spoiler: "Hackmaster Kills" (click to show/hide)

    Margo

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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #21 on: December 05, 2007, 19:13 »

    I am so happy for you Kornel :*.
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    Zeb

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    Re: Berserk! 0.8.5 (unstable) Released!
    « Reply #22 on: December 21, 2007, 15:57 »

    Lol, I should really check here more often. I had a lot going on with final exams and such though the past two weeks.

    Anyway, this is great news, I really love Berserk!
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