DRL > Discussion

Nerfing the Chaingun

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Kornel Kisielewicz:
Okay, currently I admit the chaingun path is a lot stronger than the shotgun path. Instead of enpowering the shotgun even more, this time I decided to nerf the chaingun a little. Now the question is how to do that? The possibilities:

a) reduce single bullet damage to 1d5
b) reduce number of bullets to 4 per shot
c) increase firing time
d) reduce accurancy

Now tell me what do you suggest and why that?

modular:
Damage of chaingun:

SoB1: 1d6x5 -> 1d7x5 (+17%)
SoB2: 1d7x5 -> 1d8x5 (+14%)
TH1:  1d8x5 -> 1d8x7 (+40%)
TH2: 1d8x7 -> 1d8x9 (+30%)
SoB3: 1d8x9 -> 1d9x9 (+12%)

Total: 1d6x5 -> 1d9x9 (+170%)

As far as I can tell, triggerhappy needs nerfing, possibly reducing its effect by half, adding one shot instead of 2:

SoB1: 1d6x5 -> 1d7x5 (+17%)
SoB2: 1d7x5 -> 1d8x5 (+14%)
TH1:  1d8x5 -> 1d8x6 (+20%)
TH2: 1d8x6 -> 1d8x7 (+17%)
SoB3: 1d8x7 -> 1d9x7 (+12%)

Total: 1d6x5 -> 1d8x7 (+87%)


--- Quote ---a) reduce single bullet damage to 1d5
b) reduce number of bullets to 4 per shot
c) increase firing time
d) reduce accurancy
--- End quote ---
a) This would only reduce the damage by ~15%
b) A ~20% nerf
c) Dunno, depends on the delay I guess
d) Again, idunno since there are no numbers on accuracy. This might increase the usefullness of Eagle Eye

tisiphone:

--- Quote ---For whatever n00bs words are worth I agree with Zeb that Trigger-happy Sons of Bitches are overpowered in a really big way. I’m with limiting Son of a Bitch to just 2 levels but I would prefer if Triggerhappy just got nerfed to only adding 1 round to the burst of fire and there was some kind of flavour nerf to the chaingun. For example, you could add a warm-up period (0.3-0.4s) before the chaingun starts to fire to demonstrate the barrels accelerating to the right speed. Currently, in a hypothetical no trait situation, I would pick chaingun over combat shotgun as my weapon of choice just because it’s much easer to use and pretty much as effective (if not more).
--- End quote ---
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1252.0

I think the biggest problem now is that with a couple of traits the chaingun becomes a lot more powerful then any of the shotguns. But a small nerf to the chaingun wouldn’t be a bad thing either.

P.S. modular, I think your maths is wrong.
Son of a Bitch: (1d6+1)*5 i.e. (3.5+1)*5 not (1d7)*5 ;)

Zeb:
I think it's the traits that need nerfing more than the chaingun itself.

I would suggest Reducing SoaB to 2 levels and making TH either only +1 bullet or only 1 level.

Also, Plasma Rifle is also very overpowered compared to its' late-game peers , the Double Shotty and the Rocket Launcher, for the same reasons. This was addressed by myself here. Also note that the fact that SoaB damage is armor piercing is more important in the late game. Nerfing traits would compensate for both weapons.

IIRC, Modular has SoaB much less effective than it actually is: I believe that it gives +1 AP damage, not on extra side on the dice. I may be wrong, if so correct me, but if I'm right the chart should look like this:

On non-armored foes:
NT:     [(1d6)]x5      17.5 damage
SoB1:  [(1d6)+1]x5   22.5 damage
SoB2:  [(1d6)+2]x5   27.5 damage
TH1:   [(1d6)+2]x7   38.5 damage
TH2:   [(1d6)+2]x9   49.5 damage
SoB3:  [(1d6)+3]x9   58.5 damage
About a 225% increase. (Don't have a Calculator handy)

On armor level 2 foes:
NT:    10 damage
SoB1: 13.33 damage
SoB2: 17.5 damage
TH1:   24.5 damage
TH2:   31.5 damage
SoB3: 40.5 damage
305% increase

Anyway, implementing my suggestions would reduce the final damages to 38.5 and 24.5 respectively-120% and 145% increases over the base damage. That's a quite a drop from 225% and 305%- nearly half and over half respectively.

Of course, a 120-145% damage increase is still absolutely ludicrous IMO for spending 3 traits. Therefore, I'd still recommend increasing the effectiveness of shotguns as well to counter. Remember, even without these traits chain weapons were still much more commonly taken than shotguns- and shotguns require three traits, two of which are useless filler, in order to even be usable in the first place. Your call on that though.

maso:
I'd reduce trigger happy to one extra shot per burst.
Accuracy for rapid shot weapons needs reducing too. You only need one level of eagle eye and you have near perfect accuracy.

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