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ThiefRL or AssassinRL
Daqin:
--- Quote from: Aerton on January 23, 2008, 08:51 ---
--- Quote from: Daqin on January 23, 2008, 07:11 ---You just gave good example of what I think stealth could be based on. However I believe it could still work in RL environment simplified to most crucial factors that can be simulated in 2d mode. You don't really need 3rd coordinate, just cover factor of things in sight in comparison to character or something like that. If something between target and character has cover factor higher than character being-prone factor, he is not seen.
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Does the trash can (&) has a good enough cover factor? How to check that? If not, will the crouching help to hide once the O will look at that direction? BTW, where does he look now?
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OK. Lets say trash can has cover rating 7. Player in general has cover rating 10 while standing, 6 while crouching and 3 while prone. Lets say O (ogre) has cover rating 16 (he is big). To simplify things we could say that if watcher is higher than obstacle , obstacle gets -1 to cover (higher monster can see better over trash can than smaller one). So if player ducks behind trash can he is not seen by ogre because trash can has more cover (7-1=6). If player crouches behind he is still not seen because cover has enough value to keep him out of sight (6 compared to 6). If player stands up, he is over the trashcan by value of 4 (10-6) which now can be altered by his camouflage skill and factor and compared to ogre's awareness skill and in this case character can be detected (character can still can be heard anyway..). The direction the ogre is now looking could be expressed by lightening a bit area in small cone of his field of view, or whatever idea.
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--- Quote ---Yeah it seems so, but actually pseudo 3D is not necessary if you don't make high elevations which is not really needed in RL.
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In the above example, if O will come next to &, he will see the crouching @. 3-rd coordinate is required for that. No high-level elevations used.
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It can be simulated. If space between ogre and trash can is less than value ogre is higher than trash can (16 -7=9) then area behind the trashcan which is same distance or further away loses cover rating equal to difference ogre-trashcan-distance vs area-trashcan-distance , maxed up to ogre-cover-rating vs ogre-trashcan-distance. So, if ogre comes 3 spaces away from trashcan then area behind the trashcan 6 spaces away (ogre/trashcan difference=9 minus distance to trashcan=3) and more loses 6cover rating and it is loses 5 for 5 spaces away, 4 for 4 and so on. If ogre is next to trashcan and is higher than the trashcan then trashcan loses cover value equal to difference ogre-cover/height - trashcan cover. Detailed explanation would take more thought and typing I think.
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--- Quote ---Anyway, crouching, ducking or standing all the time would not require more effort than in any other game.
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In other RLs it doesn't take any effort because there are no such modes.
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I mean any games, not only RL.
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--- Quote ---Well, whatever common RL concept is, it doesn't exist. Does it ?
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To be somewhat like rogue?
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Yeah, so to be somewhat like rogue, it has to look kind like rogue. That's all. You don't need to think about concept to say if something has a look of a rogue or not.. :)
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--- Quote ---Good timing is also an important factor: you can only cover that unavoidable open ground for a brief moment when nobody is looking there.
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Exactly.
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But in a turn-based game?
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Yeah, just look at the ogre and see how often it changes its direction of looking and for how long. Its ruts. Than use that knowledge and sneak past. Unexpected glances are also knowledge, and you could cause unexpected glance with some noise too.
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--- Quote ---If you want to compare it to 3D games,it will appear shallow. If you make new, RL like stealth, and compare 3D games to it, they will appear different.
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Then why work on something apriori inferior?
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I mean if you compare 3D games to RL it will look different.
Which is true, because RL is entirely different, so by comparision we can point out differences not what is inferior.
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--- Quote ---What I mean, it is not necessary to try simulate everything to come up with detailed system. I think it is enough if you focus on playability and most obvious aspects.
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I'm only talking about the most obvious aspects. Gas elexirs and probing mirrors are detailed system.
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Detailed because of number of little things, not complexity and sophistry of simulation. Such things are easy to do, then why not ?
Daqin:
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---Yeah it seems so, but actually pseudo 3D is not necessary if you don't make high elevations which is not really needed in RL.
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In the above example, if O will come next to &, he will see the crouching @. 3-rd coordinate is required for that. No high-level elevations used.
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I just thought of putting this thing in more simple way.
If ogre is away from trashcan more than [ogre-cover minus trashcan-cover] then trashcan gives cover to area behind normally. However if ogre moves closer to trashcan, say to 9 spaces away (16-7=9) then area behind the trashcan which is 9 spaces away or more loses one from cover granted by trashcan. If ogre comes 6 spaces away from trashcan then area behind the trashcan which is 6 spaces away loses one from cover granted by trashcan, area 7 spaces away loses 2, area 8 spaces away loses 3, and area 9 or more spaces away loses 4. I think you can get what I mean now.
Sachiko:
Hmm... I have just noticed this topic, and I must say, it promises a lot. I have played the Thief series myself, and I say that the whole 'You must be stealthy, not strong' idea was something I found interesting. An RL of Thief would be an awesome thing, and although it would look like a complex thing to do, I'm sure someone with good coding skills could do it.
You have my support.
Daqin:
--- Quote from: Sachiko on April 01, 2008, 08:50 ---Hmm... I have just noticed this topic, and I must say, it promises a lot. I have played the Thief series myself, and I say that the whole 'You must be stealthy, not strong' idea was something I found interesting. An RL of Thief would be an awesome thing,
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Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. I don't give a fuck anymore.
Sachiko:
It's a pity that you have lost interest. Well, things that happen.
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