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Author Topic: Graphs for DooM Roguelike  (Read 57243 times)

Malek Deneith

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2006, 11:19 »

Well ... I'm not saying those are bad or something ... but please - If you'll add tiles make them an option ... Personally i prefer ASCI chars than tiles.
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jake250

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2006, 14:00 »

Quoting: Malek
Personally i prefer ASCI chars than tiles.

Why?

BTW, the sprites need all 8 sides direction to make it look good in game, + firing position + a moving states.

Otherwise, its not even worth it : it would look really bad : worse than the ASCII.
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Anticheese

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2006, 21:40 »

Quoting: Malek
Personally i prefer ASCI chars than tiles.


Me too..

Quoting: jake250
Why?


Tiles in roguelike games generally...Suck balls.

Playing nethack in graphic mode was enough to put me off, Being chased down a lime green hallway by what looked like a mass of black with red dots took away from the fun of being chased down a dark hallway by a Black Dragon.

With TTY you are free to imagine what the game is like for yourself.
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Anonymous

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2006, 22:11 »

the first link i said where more suitable, because where top down sprites. But alas, i dont know how to extract it.

I vote for tiles also ascii.
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Margo

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2006, 22:33 »

Just let you know Derek, Kornel is very interested in your tiles:). But please, be patient, as he has a lot to do  with studies now and has no time to take a part in this discussion.

PS. Like your tiles (and other "pieces of art") at your web site.

Take care, Margo:)
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Derek

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2006, 01:39 »

Wow, a lot of responses!  Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I knew there would be people who preferred ASCII... Roguelike purists, hehe!  I think that's great - ASCII is more compact and leaves more room for your imagination.  Tiles are just fun to look at, and a little more clear.

The best way to do it, of course, is to let people decide how they want to play - tiles or ASCII. :)

Quoting: jimmyj
Actually, it might be kinda neat....but the former human either has an ugly mustache or a runny nose....


Ha ha... well, look at the original sprite, and you'll see a few pixels of orange above his lip.  I think it's supposed to be blood or rotten flesh.

Quoting: jake250
BTW, the sprites need all 8 sides direction to make it look good in game, + firing position + a moving states.

Otherwise, its not even worth it : it would look really bad : worse than the ASCII.


Hmmm, you really think so?  There doesn't seem to be any practical reason to show the character facing 8 directions (other than for realism, perhaps).  That would also mean 8x the tiles and Kornel would also have to add some code to the engine to test for direction.

In my opinion, the idea behind tiles is just to give a different look to the game.  In the end, it's still a Roguelike and the tiles are still just icons to represent graphically what's being described by the text.

Quoting: Anonymous
the first link i said where more suitable, because where top down sprites. But alas, i dont know how to extract it.


IMO, those sprites were way too large (I think 32 x 32 is about as large as you can get before you can't see enough on the screen at once).  They were also all different sizes, which means that they either had to be scaled or Kornel would have to rewrite the engine to accomodate them.

Also, the problem with top-down sprites is that you can't see the faces of the characters very well.  There's not as much personality in top-down.  In the original Doom, you're used to seeing the monsters from the front, so imo you capture the spirit of the game better with front-facing sprites.

Quoting: Margo
Just let you know Derek, Kornel is very interested in your tiles:). But please, be patient, as he has a lot to do with studies now and has no time to take a part in this discussion.


That's awesome, thank you! :)

Yeah, in the end Kornel has the final say about what the tiles look like, IF he thinks they're a good idea.  I'll of course listen to him.

Alright, wow, I'm talking way too much.  Here's some graphics, thanks for listening!

Some demons:



Boots:



And here's a mockup of what the game might look like with tiles... based on one of the screenshots from the front page.

The floor and wall tiles are temporary, so please don't get angry that they don't look perfect yet (actually everything's temporary right now). ;)

That will probably be it for now.  I'll wait for Kornel to finish up his studies before I make any more tiles.
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Margo

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2006, 02:15 »

Derek, the red demon is brilliant! Kornel has to see it.
(Talk to him tommorow morning:)
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Aerton

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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2006, 07:54 »

Very nice. While I am in the ASCII crowd too, I have a soft spot for a good pixel art. I only afraid size of levels would have be adjusted to narrower but higher as text symbols have diffeernt porportions.
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jake250

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2006, 07:56 »

The in game look is interesting, in fact it looks neat.

If it was like that at first it would be a lot better to play already... although it would be even better with 4 directions, firing animation etc.. but im dreaming aloud, im I? :P

I would love if all that would be true. Having sprites alone is not the best thing IMO..
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Aerton

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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2006, 10:14 »

Quoting: jake250
although it would be even better with 4 directions, firing animation etc..

and being 3D and realtime :D
All the way back to the origins.
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Anticheese

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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2006, 10:25 »

Chibi doom! Kickass...

This will certainly bring DoomRL to the masses..

--

In other news, The hardest part about having 8 seperate character walking animations is actually drawing the things, All Kornel needs to do is have a new variable in the game, From 1 thru 8.

Lets call it "facedir"

All he needs to do is shunt in a bit of code that will change "facedir" to its corrosponding number on the keypad (1 = down left, 4 = left, 7 = top left, etc) and make some draw code.

However thats jsut for the player, It would be more challenging for the enemys..

--
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Anonymous

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2006, 12:42 »

Whoaaaa.... http://www.derekyu.com/doomrl/mock.png -> I LOOOOVEEEE ITTTT!!!! :)

Baron face seems a little ugly. But Cacodemom is... pretty!!! :)

Also could be added more enemies from:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=581716#post581716
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2006, 00:57 »

Ugh, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier -- I'm in the middle of my exam session at the University, and have time for nothing. I just found a few minutes between one book and another, for I certainly DON'T want to lose your interest in this topic :-D.

First of all let me say that I realy am impressed by the art you presented. While I'm not a fan of chibi-graphics, the tiles you presented I think could work in DoomRL (for those afraid -- ASCII mode will always be available).

I was wondering wether to add graphics to DoomRL at some point, but I planned a shameless rip from the original. I was convinced that graphics need to hold the doom-feel to be any good at all and I was convinced that custom made graphics can't accomplish that. Well, you proved me wrong -- the art you presented truly holds the feel of the original.

I am a little afraid tough that (except for opening the game to no-ascii people) this might also discourage othes --

1) hardcore ASCII players
2) people who take the Doom-feel presented in DoomRL fully seriously

Hence, I would like the DoomRL-art to stay remotely serious. The images you presented are fine tough, but I still would vote for using dark colors for the scenery (no blue floors ^_^).

Anyway I would be honoured if you'd like to do a full set for DoomRL! There's still a lot work to complete that tough -- both program-wise and art wise. Program wise is my problem -> and I will start doing it right after I release 0.9.9 (so there will be a glorious graphical 1.0.0 ^^). But that would mean I would have to do screen scrolling anyway ^_^. As for art-wise -- I also need scenery sprites. I can do those myself if you don't have the time (contrary to the character sprites).

Anyway, it seems that a graphical DoomRL version has closed in a lot to reality ^_^.

As for directions -- sure it would be nice. But I know it's not easy to create such a magnitude of sprites, so just one facing would be fine for the primal version.

P.S.1 Still, as hard as I try I can't imagine the Spider-Mastermind in a single tile-cell :-/

P.S.2 Thanks honey for talking care of our guest while I was away :-)
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Margo

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Graphs for DooM Roguelike
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2006, 01:39 »

"P.S.2 Thanks honey for talking care of our guest while I was away :-)"-- Be my guest, dear :*

KKK!
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jake250

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« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2006, 03:17 »

thats amasing! If everything goes well later we will have one hell of a game!

Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
P.S.1 Still, as hard as I try I can't imagine the Spider-Mastermind in a single tile-cell :-/

The only possible solution is to give bigger monsters more tiles, so they could take 4 tiles total... otherwise it WOULD look weird.

Anyway, great news!
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