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Author Topic: Pistols: Best weapon ever?  (Read 6925 times)

ParaSait

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Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« on: August 15, 2008, 05:59 »

For example: AoMr is much easier than a normal game. Sometimes I even decide to start normal game, and use nothing but pistols and choose SoG+Dualgunner because with the right traits, pistols can be the best primary weapon there is.

Why? Well, with a combat shottie you have to shoot about five times to kill a cacodemon (plus pumping shells and after that, loose a lot of time reloading the whole thing). Double shotgun deals very good damage but the reload time and range is shameful. It also eats shells like crazy. Chaingun can't hit the broad side of a barn. Rocket launcher is good due to it's kickback, but you only find/use it in later levels and you could get hit by its splash damage. Plasma rifle, heh, I don't even bother wasting a whole inventory slot for such a piece of trash; bad accuracy and it EATS those rather rare cells and it really misses that kickback. BFG is only useful in very crappy situations and to kill Cybie.

Now, what's left? Ah-hah! The pistol! Good accuracy, short reload time, with the right traits you can dual wield them and deal very good damage (You kill a Cacodemon in 3 dual shots), it uses its ammo right so no waste of bullets etc etc...

So people, look no further. The best weapon in the whole game is already included in your starting equipment!

At the other hand, I can call DoomRL unique AGAIN. Because in other games the pistol is the most useless weapon there is.


... And now I'm gonna play an AoMr game.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 06:04 by Mrazerty »
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rekenne

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 09:23 »

I love me the pistols and would play AoMr games before it was actually a challenge. However, it takes 3 traits to make pistols worth starting to use after you find your first Combat Shottie (SoaG 2 + Dual), then a 4th (SoaG 3) to stay useful later on. This is a heavy investment that someone using other weapons could have used to get +30 HP and +1 armor or to have started on Eagle Eye for Chain Gunning or for Son of a Bitch or ...

Now, your argument against all the other weapons can be more than fixed by traits. Pistols take more traits than any other weapon to be good. I'd put it at at least 6, more if you don't have artifact pistols or a lot of damage mods. 2d4 damage against armor starts to become *pathetic*.

A plasma gunner with EE 3 and SoaB 3 vs a Pistol user with 6 traits (SoaG 3, Dual, EE 2). They have, at that point, similar accuracy (Pistol has 1 higher), the pistol user can get out 6 shots in the same time as 8 shots from the plasma gun, and deals an average of 5 damage per shot compared to 7.5 with the plasma gun. Against something with 1 armorthis is 4*6 = 24 vs 6.5*8 = 52; with 2 armor this is 3*6 = 18 damage vs 5.5*8 = 44 damage. (A Chaingunner with a similar setup would have the same accuracy as a pistol user and deal 25 and 20, respectively, with the same setup. And it would use 1 less ammo.)

Rockets deal AoE damage. Give it 4 enemies in blast radius and it can deal 84 damage in a single fire. Dance around cover with reloading and you can kill a large group much easier than any pistol user ever could. Similar tactics work best with the shotgun family, as well.

So, yes, while pistols have the potential to be good, other weapons start off good or don't need as many feats to be as good or better.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 09:26 by rekenne »
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ParaSait

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2008, 06:28 »

Well actually the pistol has always been my favourite weapon. When I see someone with a heavy weapon that destroys anything in seconds I always feel like "Geez try a bigger gun, n00b" =P

If I would be a character in Metal Gear Solid, it would definatly be Revolver Ocelot =D
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Supernaut

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2008, 13:02 »

I disagree. I myself am a shotgun user, and my favourite trait & weapon combination is 2x reloader , shottyman, 3x hellruner + some random survival / damage traits. The thing about hellrunner / shottyman combination is that it allows you to dodge plenty of shots, while being able to dish out much damage and reload your shotgun every move. Both hellrunner and reloader have other uses fx reloader helps with  rocket launcher / bfg and hellrunner let's you outrun demons (whilst running) and generally walk faster. Of course this build has some drawbacks as well, bigest one is that you have to rely on % of your dodge rate and it's only a procent. You also have to get close to the enemy to deal good damage.
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Silhar

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2008, 10:14 »

...because with the right traits, pistols can be the best primary weapon there is.

Agreed. Shotguns, chainguns or even a chainsaw too. We call it a "weapon build". Handy, isn't it ? :P
Pistols aren't the worst weapon in DoomRL. No. They are proably fastest, deal more damage than a chaingun (yeah, chainee used without SoaB), use the most popular ammo lying around. But they also have only six bullets capacity, don't do AoE damage, have a chance to miss... And don't have a move-reload action. Every weapon has its good and bad sides. Okay, maybe except fists or combat knife (that can be used with juggler to support a chainsaw or some legendary stuff, for example. But when ya have "some legendary stuff", you proably support it with chainsaw), which are good only until Chained Court...

But, hell, using a pair of pistols is stylish to t3h max. I like it.

At the other hand, I can call DoomRL unique AGAIN. Because in other games the pistol is the most useless weapon there is.

Agreed. A good balancing here.

If we are talking about pistols and challenges, got a question about it. Can a melee weapon in AoMr be used with a pistol using Juggler, or will system judge it unworthy ?

Elnar

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2008, 12:56 »

Quote
The thing about hellrunner / shottyman combination is that it allows you to dodge plenty of shots
Only before UV. In UV games monsters has big bonus to accuracy and dodge become useless.
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Supernaut

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 06:11 »

Quote
The thing about hellrunner / shottyman combination is that it allows you to dodge plenty of shots
Only before UV. In UV games monsters has big bonus to accuracy and dodge become useless.
That sucks. Makes one build not viable.
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Blade

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 09:28 »

Only before UV. In UV games monsters has big bonus to accuracy and dodge become useless.

FALSE. As far as i know, monsters doesn't have any changes in the stats on different difficulty levels. And i very successfully have used Hellrunner on Nightmare, and it was not even a little less useful than on easier levels.
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ParaSait

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2008, 13:21 »

OK I just tried a game using about only chaingun and plasma rifle, which I rarely do, and won. I have totally changed my idea about all weapons other than pistol and combat shottie being bad, I discovered that you just need 1) The right traits, and 2) You gotta know how to use them.
Now I think all weapons are very balanced. Except the double shottie could use a smaller reload time.
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Elnar

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 01:05 »

Blade
Quote
monsters have a higher toHit on HMP, UV and N!, and a lower on ITYTD
From version log.
And, from my experience in AoB UV games, monsters with basic bonus to accuracy(i, B, C) can hit runing player half of times. If Player uses hellrunner, without it, they hit me almost each shot. In UV dodge work only vs monsters with basic low accuracy (h, A, M).
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Supernaut

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 03:40 »

Except the double shottie could use a smaller reload time.
Shottieman makes your reload time your movement time.
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Blade

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Re: Pistols: Best weapon ever?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 05:42 »

From version log.
And, from my experience in AoB UV games, monsters with basic bonus to accuracy(i, B, C) can hit runing player half of times. If Player uses hellrunner, without it, they hit me almost each shot. In UV dodge work only vs monsters with basic low accuracy (h, A, M).

Oops. My bad. Ok then.)
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