Chaosforge Forum

  • May 24, 2024, 20:54
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]

Author Topic: Global highscores  (Read 15866 times)

Cyber Killer

  • Elder
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 98
  • cyberpunk
    • View Profile
    • CK's site
Global highscores
« on: September 30, 2008, 10:53 »

How about putting some kind of global highscores? The players nick+score+type-of-game would be sent to a eg mysql server and for a list of highscores it would be retrieved. The server could keep eg the top100 scores for all game types etc. Mysql queries are quite fast so it wouldn't really be a problem with lags in showing and submitting the scores. Ofc the highscores should be kept separate for all released game versions.

 The game is closed-source so far, so the db password could be hardcoded into the game binary and sent over a ssl connection to ensure no one would send false data.

What do you think?
Logged

DaEezT

  • Greater Elder
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 12:59 »

Too much trouble for too little (in my case zero) gain.
Add a checksum (HMAC) to the mortems and add an upload function to the forum so those who want to participate in the high score can do so.
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

Brutalist

  • Elder
  • Private FC
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 09:51 »

I don't care for global high scores that much myself (because I'd likely not make it anywhere near the top anyway), but I'd really like to have separate score tables for at least some different game types such as AoB. As it is, making it far enough in an AoB game to end up in the high score list is extremely unlikely, thus reducing the incentive to play that particular challenge a lot. If there were a separate high score list I might even play it every now and then to try and beat my previous record. I'd imagine I'm not the only one who'd like such a feature but then again that might be just the case.
Logged

ParaSait

  • Baffen :P
  • Elder
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1229
  • Happy Little Boozer
    • View Profile
    • MPSF
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 14:57 »

The table would probably look like this:

1: Blade
2: Blade
3: Blade
4: Blade
5: Blade
6: Blade
7: Blade
8: Blade
9: Blade
10: Blade

=P
Logged
[18|7|3|0|0|0] [MED:13/43] [SPE:36/67] [ASM:11/40]

Check out my epic youtube channel!
Currently playing The Bard's Tale and System Shock 2 (coop with GrAV1t)!

Cyber Killer

  • Elder
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 98
  • cyberpunk
    • View Profile
    • CK's site
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 20:12 »

Many games keep global highscores despite having pro gamers in their tables... Maybe (if the idea evolved) a similar to eg Audiosurf (account based, one per account per play highscore) system would be adapted with (a bit) different scoring for different play modes - this keeps the best players from occuping all the top places in the ranking.

So it wouldn't look like <pseudo-objective C>1:10 Blade /n (others)</pseudo-objective C> :-P.

Any way to compare the single player results would be cool... It would give the game a quite a good kick and the players a motivation to play more to get better.
Logged

Titt

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 08:59 »

I agree that a global high score list would be a fun idea, players who didn't like it could ignore it or not submit scores to it. It would take a little work to keep it from being very easy to cheat at, though, by manipulating save files or variables in local memory; the only fair way to do it might be to keep everything on a remote server, and have players telnet in to play, like how Crawl runs on crawl.akrasiac.org.
Logged

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4563
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 11:16 »

Remember that you can keep just one highscore per table per forum account :). So 1. would be Blade, but the rest would be others
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

Blade

  • Tester
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 691
    • View Profile
    • Upyachka
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2008, 13:33 »

So 1. would be Blade, but the rest would be others

I'm not so sure about that. Some people are playing some challenges better than me and some challenges or game types i do not play at all (for example, i have never played AoD). So until i will get really bored, i don't think that my name will be on the first place in every table.))

Also, won't such account-based system be vulnerable to exploit, when you can registrate multiple accounts and make a good highscore for each of them, and to CONQUER THAT HIGHSCORES TABLE (MWA-HA-HA?)
Logged
Low orbit ion cannon damaged my brain!!1
Now i'm an idiot!1 Kill me, somebody!!11

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4563
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2008, 14:48 »

Let's say you need 10 posts on the forum to be visible on the highscore tables :)
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

ParaSait

  • Baffen :P
  • Elder
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1229
  • Happy Little Boozer
    • View Profile
    • MPSF
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2008, 15:52 »

So 1. would be Blade, but the rest would be others

I'm not so sure about that. Some people are playing some challenges better than me and some challenges or game types i do not play at all (for example, i have never played AoD). So until i will get really bored, i don't think that my name will be on the first place in every table.))

Also, won't such account-based system be vulnerable to exploit, when you can registrate multiple accounts and make a good highscore for each of them, and to CONQUER THAT HIGHSCORES TABLE (MWA-HA-HA?)

But you ARE a really good player. You even got a challenge difficulty level named after you! =D
Logged
[18|7|3|0|0|0] [MED:13/43] [SPE:36/67] [ASM:11/40]

Check out my epic youtube channel!
Currently playing The Bard's Tale and System Shock 2 (coop with GrAV1t)!

Blade

  • Tester
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Brigadier General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 691
    • View Profile
    • Upyachka
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2008, 16:24 »

But you ARE a really good player. You even got a challenge difficulty level named after you! =D

I'm a good player. But there are some players, who are as good, or better than me. So if i will be first in such scoreboards - this won't be easy for me anyway, such players will give me a challenge.

Also, this forum looks like forum of praising the almighty Blade. Praise Kornel, he's THE CREATOR of this great game, by the way!) I'm only the good player of HIS game.)
Logged
Low orbit ion cannon damaged my brain!!1
Now i'm an idiot!1 Kill me, somebody!!11

Thomas

  • DoomRL Wiki and Testing Ops
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
  • How's it going?
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2008, 18:49 »

I'd just be happy if we got that site that turns your player.dat in to a picture with your stats in it back online again.
Logged
Arch-Vile Chaos Major Thomas
[26/26/26/25/9/1]
Medals: 35/43 Specials: 69/67 Assemblies: 36/40

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 10:22 »

Remember that you can keep just one highscore per table per forum account :). So 1. would be Blade, but the rest would be others
Sorry man, but you've forgotten the CEATERS! 1 would be ME! 2 would be Blade ther rest would be others. If you(Kornel) Could track cheaters, and do not allow them to place their scores, so 1 would be Blade. But without, I don't think somebody should beat record: Full win on AoMr on N! with all special levels beaten without vaults and Wall(even MORTUARY) with total of 914476!Ha-Ha! Could you beat it Blade:)?
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Vestin

  • Elder
  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Philosopher
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 12:08 »

Sorry man, but you've forgotten the CEATERS! 1 would be ME! 2 would be Blade ther rest would be others. If you(Kornel) Could track cheaters, and do not allow them to place their scores, so 1 would be Blade.
I can't help but wonder - why the f*** being a cheater makes you feel so good about yourself ?

It's simple - you can cheat, you can win that way... but noone here gives a shit. It doesn't count. If you post it - it doesn't prove you've got skills - it only proves a bit of persistence and lack of common sense.
You don't even have to play, FFS. You can make the numbers up or ever copy-paste them from someone else's mortem. Sooner or later someone might figure that out, but - what's the difference ?
We post here, because we want to share out experience and joy. DOOM:RL is not that much competitive. The community is about sharing our victories and losses, evaluating the gameplay ideas etc. There is no point in cheating. You don't get the respect, you gain nothing. The open claims of savescumming are met with silence and contempt. Any tries to lie to us would be seen through sooner or later and the man behind them would end up shunned by all.
There's no point in a more complex in-game protection, simply because all the attempts to bypass what we already have are nonexistent and useless.
Logged

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 13:24 »

About savescumming -this REALLY shows the skill of the player, it's only a prevention of YASD.About cheating - it's REALLY FUN. You didn't take that score seriously, didn't you? I've cheatet for only purpose - to post a topic(which is right now not posted). I wan't to make a solution of "How to beat the N!". I suggest you just try - I don't say this would give anything, but countig that nuke gives 200 dmg and you have 402%HP - this was really funny! Mortuary on N! when you're immortal - imagine THAT! If there would be a highscore board I wouldn't post result there(I say cheeater rezult, I have UV score 161000), but I've always thought - Cheating is created not for wininng the game, it's for having real FUN!
And I've posted here because I've looking on what do LostSouls are looking at.
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Vestin

  • Elder
  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Philosopher
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2008, 14:12 »

About savescumming -this REALLY shows the skill of the player, it's only a prevention of YASD.
It's all about the "S" in YASDs. You show skills by avoiding them and adjusting to whatever you get on the next level. That shows that you can handle (almost) ANYTHING that waits for you out there. Reloading a save only shows that there is ONE situation on that level that you can deal with.

About cheating - it's REALLY FUN.
Subjective. I think of it as repulsive.

You didn't take that score seriously, didn't you?
I just said that there is no need for a protection.

I've cheatet for only purpose - to post a topic(which is right now not posted). I wan't to make a solution of "How to beat the N!".
That's research. Seems to fit more into the "Discussion" subforum and should doesn't make a single mortem helpful - it should rather be filled with your thoughts and/or stats you got from the game.
The stats, BTW, more fit the Wiki than the forums.

(...) Cheating is created not for wininng the game, it's for having real FUN!
It's like cheating on your wife. It might be fun, but it's wrong and not something you want to talk about in public ;P.
Just a thought...
Logged

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2008, 09:49 »

And what about really making it. I konow how to do this. And about savescuming - it shows the skill, but is much below the score. Whenn I was savescumming,I have been killed on lvl  appr. 8 17 21 22 23 24( now I can beat them).
And about N!, I'm not sure about all of material, I want people to post their thought on topic.
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Titt

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2008, 10:22 »

Savescumming and various other ways of cheating can be pretty important for playtesting the game and making sure everything works properly, but part of the point of a roguelike is that the balance and pace of the game is very particular and carefully designed; in my experience, any degree of cheating throws off the balance and pace, and makes the game completely unfun (for me, at least).
Logged

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2008, 12:40 »

For you of course! Not for me. When you're cheating you MUST forget all of the basic rules and do your own. Like "demons can only be killed by themselves" or any other crazy thing. I've ompleted the wall with using only 1 phase devise(I mean without rockets). If you should think about just winning the game with cheatinng, you sould remember that "every foll could win the game with cheats". It's fun when YOU make it fun. This is the rule to cheat in ALL games.
PS: And should I post a Global Highscore topic(another), on which not the discussion, but scores will be?
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Thomas

  • DoomRL Wiki and Testing Ops
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
  • How's it going?
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2008, 16:46 »

Eh, scumming is horrible. Especially when I can already do silly challenges like shotgun-only games without scumming.

Well, I did scum my full win, but only level 24. I did level 1-23 without saving and I didn't save before the final boss.

Also wait a second, how did ZZ scum N!? There's supposed to be no saving on N! and if that got changed in some version then I demand it gets changed back in 0.9.9 BETA 1.
Logged
Arch-Vile Chaos Major Thomas
[26/26/26/25/9/1]
Medals: 35/43 Specials: 69/67 Assemblies: 36/40

ParaSait

  • Baffen :P
  • Elder
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1229
  • Happy Little Boozer
    • View Profile
    • MPSF
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2008, 16:55 »

Maybe he used that DoomRL trainer ;P
Logged
[18|7|3|0|0|0] [MED:13/43] [SPE:36/67] [ASM:11/40]

Check out my epic youtube channel!
Currently playing The Bard's Tale and System Shock 2 (coop with GrAV1t)!

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 04:14 »

Hey, people, I've didn't savescum on N!, i've been walking with 570% of HP!
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Thomas

  • DoomRL Wiki and Testing Ops
  • Elder Chaos Guard
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
  • How's it going?
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2008, 19:49 »

Oh... (Also I did check and thank god, saving still doesn't work in N!)

Well that's even worse than scumming then.
* Thomas coughs awkwardly.
Logged
Arch-Vile Chaos Major Thomas
[26/26/26/25/9/1]
Medals: 35/43 Specials: 69/67 Assemblies: 36/40

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2008, 00:42 »

The worsest thing I can do - make ammo in weapon do not go down and you can shot from your BFG as many times as you want. Men, im a PRO cheater and I could cheat in almost EVERY game. And I've told you - that was for posting the topic here in forum!
AND ABOUT GLOBAL HIGHSCORES!!! Maybe we could remove our cheating discussion to CHeating section and here dtscuss only Global HIghscores.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 00:47 by ZZ »
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Vestin

  • Elder
  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • Philosopher
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2008, 15:44 »

AND ABOUT GLOBAL HIGHSCORES!!! Maybe we could remove our cheating discussion to CHeating section and here dtscuss only Global HIghscores.
Feeling guilty... or just uneasy ;) ?
Logged

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2008, 08:12 »

I'm feeling that I could do something for forum and I really want to know my rating(not cheating of course). I don't know how I'm playing.I don't feel guilty for cheating! I want here place for real GlobalScores not for cheating
And if you want me to do such thing like GS I could do it on 1 december, not before.
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4563
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 02:27 »

And if you want me to do such thing like GS I could do it on 1 december, not before.
Should I understand that as a offer of help for implementing the web-side of the GS? :)
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

skarczew

  • Elder
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 974
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2008, 03:09 »

About savescumming -this REALLY shows the skill of the player (...)
Cheating is created not for wininng the game, it's for having real FUN! (...)
You are wrong.
Cheating in real game (not testing) is for losers and braggers. Everyone can win with cheating, but only skilled player can win without cheating.

You may have fun, but you also steal fun from the people that truly deserve it.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 06:38 by skarczew »
Logged

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2008, 07:45 »

I'm skilled cheater. Savescumming is not that kind of cheating with whoch could anybody win with. And I've said - cheating it's not desined to win - it's for having fun.
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

skarczew

  • Elder
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 974
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2008, 04:28 »

Quote
And I've said - cheating it's not desined to win - it's for having fun.
Following your way of thinking - why don't you make a cheat that will kill you every time you reach level 5 in DoomRL, for example ? :D
You cheat, you have fun - and you do not influence other people ;) .
Logged

ZZ

  • AliensRL Beta Tester
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2008, 07:37 »

What fun of killing? And if I do,what's the sence of playing then? ANd cheating is supposed to make game easier. Following MY way of thinking, your idea is wrong - you don't have fun! I mean that not if you're cheating you're getting fun - you cheat AND get fun.
Logged
Put a chainsaw in my coffin. If I go to Hell, I'll need to do some cleaning there.

skarczew

  • Elder
  • Major General
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 974
    • View Profile
Re: Global highscores
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2008, 09:42 »

Nope, my idea is right.

You cheat because you want to have fun from winning (well, most people play to win and have from it). But if you play this way you are unable to win without cheat.

If everyone thought the same as you and went your way, there would be no sense in playing this game.
There would be no sense in making difficulty levels, challenges, whatsoever.

The fun in roguelikes is not entirelly based on completing the game. The fun is to learn strategy that helps keep you alive and eventually leads to the end of game.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]