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[Melon]

Just my few cents. You say Cybie has armour 4?

Well then, take 3 SoG, 1SoB and he has no armour at all [:
And get some damage mods...

When I am fighting arachnotrons, I usually have SoG 3 and EE 3 (and Dualgunner). When I am lucky, I have some SoB and damage mods applied. What happens?

Arachnotros get pushed back. Usually, they are fast and manage to get back to my LoS, but then again, they get another portion of lead. If I empty my magazines, I take cover and reload.

This is how I play AoMr:
SoGx2
Dualgunner
EEx2
SoG
EE
SoBx3 (I do not know if this is the highest number)
Ironman (I do not take TaN, because of the arachnotron procedure I mentioned above)
Usually I max out Ironman and then Finesse. Usually when I get to this point, my character is very powerfull. And apply as many damage mods as you can!

Anyway, I wish for a game where I get my hands of Anti-freak Jackal before entering the Wall. Yummy!
But then again, I noticed, Anti-freak Jackal is not so cool, because you might accidentally destroy valuable items. And we really need ammo on AoMr!

[skarczew]

Hmmmmm, very nice statistics Styro - thank you for them :) .

Melon:
Jackal do not destroy walls. I got it once (the only time when I got useful unique weapon on AoMr) and tested it.
I could not blast any wall, so in the end I skipped going there.

Weapon is awesome - splash damage works wonders and the damage is pretty nice itself. It can destroy valuable stuff, but there are tactics that minimalise it.

[Melon]

But I was destroying the walls! Although, it seemed a little random (it doesn't destroy the whole 3x3 area, just some parts), but the AFJ did destroy the walls!

[Styro]

Damage mods make ammo usage more efficient.

This is very true. Even though damage per second is roughly equal, total damage before reload is definitely on the side of damage mods.

Generally you can kill most single opponents without having to reload at that point in the game, but if you find yourself surrounded by baddies then guns with damage mods probably are an advantage because you are giving out more pain per reload.

Speed Pistol SoG 3
6 shots * 8 avg dmg = 48 damage / clip

Damage Pistol SoG 3
6 shots * 11 avg dmg = 66 damage / clip

Against armored opponents it is 32 dmg/clip for Speed mods and 42 dmg/clip for Damage mods.

You can also make the argument that with speed you burn through more ammo, but in my experience it is pretty tough to run out of ammo. If you do it is probably because you are shooting blindly or you are hoarding too many med-packs.

[skarczew]

Melon:
I remember using few dozens of shots against walls on a level before The Wall. They did not seem to do any damage as far as i remember ...
I may be wrong of course - so it would be nice if any of our testers/cheaters obtained AFJ (by any means) and went on that level just for testing purposes.

If you do it is probably because you are shooting blindly or you are hoarding too many med-packs.

Special levels tend to eat ammo as well.

[raekuul]

I'd have to figure out where Weapon Spawn Level hides in the memory, which in turn means that I'd have to determine if the game pre-determines what uniques you get...

Oh Kayi~n! Kor~nel!

[rekenne]

If DoomRL was made by Kayin, the first level would look something like:

Code: [Select]

###########################################################
#@.....s...................................................
#.......s..................................................
#..s..c...s........................................B.......
#.......c.................########.........................
#...c.....................#......#########.................
#.........................#....../....h..#.................
#......................####/###..#.......#######...........
#......................#.R....########...#..h..#...........
#......................#...R../V.V.V>#.../...../...........
#......................#.R....########...#...h.#...........
#......................####/###..#.......#######...........
#.........................#....../...h...#.................
#.........................#......#########.................
#.........................########.........................
#.....A....................................................
#..........A.......................................B.......
#.......A..................................................
#..........................................................
###########################################################

Note: The c's are not demons, they are cherries.

[raekuul]

This is true.

[Zi]

Son of a Gun's firing speed boost does not multiply like mods do, but add, which makes it even better.  So 3x SoG means you only spend 40% of the usual time to fire a shot.  With Dual gunner, you require 48% of the usual time to fire TWO shots.

Look at this post: http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1814.msg14396#msg14396

I also don't prefer speed mods, but I had nothing else to choose from for the longest time.  If you've got 3 damage mods already on the pistol though (happens to me once in a blue moon), throwing a few speed mods doesn't hurt.

Damage mods are rather nice, to counter enemy armor, especially.  The magazine mod has turned out to be surprisingly useful, getting 8 shots off before needing to reload actually allows you to finish off enemies without needing to reload more often, which pays off a lot.  It also decreases the impact of reload time as you don't need to reload as often.

Accuracy is underrated.  If you're using the pistol from long range (or with intuition, especially), the chance to miss actually is nontrivial.  But here taking the trait is better, as one trait level gives +2 acc, while 1 mod gives +1 acc.

[Melon]

Melon:
I remember using few dozens of shots against walls on a level before The Wall. They did not seem to do any damage as far as i remember ...
I may be wrong of course - so it would be nice if any of our testers/cheaters obtained AFJ (by any means) and went on that level just for testing purposes.

If you do it is probably because you are shooting blindly or you are hoarding too many med-packs.

Special levels tend to eat ammo as well.

AntiFreak Jackal destroys walls! I have it now, 2xSoG, and it does happen, although very rarely! But I had the Wall level before the Jackal |:

EDIT: Now I have 3xSoG, 2xSoB and I destroy walls more often

[Jarkko]

More damage gives a better chance of knocking back the monsters when you shoot them. I'm not sure how it works, but I'm guessing something like 10 damage as the threshold. In an AoMr game you usually start knocking back the monsters at some point of the game, and in earlier versions of the game when SoaG gave 2 points of damage it was too easy. KB makes a HUGE difference, especially with Cateye as the monsters never get a chance to shoot at you. So that's another advantage damage mods have over speed mods, they help achieving knockback.

But most of the time it's just a matter of luck and what type of mods you happen to get your hands on.

I found the AFJ once but didn't use it, but I'm guessing that destroying walls is also damage dependent, so with SoaGx3 and SoaBx3 you'll be destroying more walls than without them.

[raekuul]

The threshhold for wall breaking seems to be 13 and a burst weapon.

Fun fact: Burst weapons with a splash of 0 and enough damage dealt will still break walls, but won't damage items. Too bad that there aren't any legitimate burst weapons with a splash of 0. Not including Railgun, but that's not a burst weapon anyway.