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Author Topic: Dialogue in RL  (Read 11341 times)

Dakin

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Dialogue in RL
« on: February 23, 2009, 15:52 »
I've noticed roguelikes tend to miss one very potential thing: dialogue scripts for some RP plot. Well, in comparision to lots of time and work put into making roguelike, adding some text scripts seems like nothing. Seriously, just take all those books and great RPGs.. everything is just about good story . If graphics and sound, mechanics,etc. are limited then text does have unlimited potential, ehm.. yes. Doesn't it ? Why not to add this into RL to make it different, more interesting ? Just thinking.
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rekenne

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 18:38 »
That, uh, sorta defeats the point.
Why is dialogue needed? There's no guaranteed points that the player will go through, except the first level and the last one - And, well, going by Doom the only 'people' that our marine meets are, well, only former people.
Even for other RLs, the most 'plot based' ones are ADOM and ... Heck, probably IVAN? And they do about all you *can* do. Put some story fragments out there, but not make them required. As that takes some of the fun out of the game.
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JBudOne

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 23:28 »
Quote from: rekenne on February 23, 2009, 18:38
That, uh, sorta defeats the point.
Why is dialogue needed? There's no guaranteed points that the player will go through, except the first level and the last one - And, well, going by Doom the only 'people' that our marine meets are, well, only former people.
Even for other RLs, the most 'plot based' ones are ADOM and ... Heck, probably IVAN? And they do about all you *can* do. Put some story fragments out there, but not make them required. As that takes some of the fun out of the game.

Well wait a sec, what about ToME? ToME has lots of questing (which is what it looks like you guys are talking about), and it works out fine.
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rekenne

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 00:31 »
ToME is one I haven't played yet.
I'll try it out, though.
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Dakin

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 03:10 »
Quote from: rekenne on February 23, 2009, 18:38
That, uh, sorta defeats the point.
Why is dialogue needed? ...

Well, from that point of view it may be not needed. However, my point is that there are nice story based games, so if you make good story and add anything that roguelike has to offfer then you may come up with something interesting. Besides, if there is no such roduelike yet, just like you mentioned, then maybe we still don't know how would it work out. General thoughts on roguelikes.

Anyways, by 'dialogue' I ment conversation like in RPG games, where you can answer different questions, intimidate or offer help, shift aligngment etc., and uncover the story.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 03:15 by Dakin »
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Melon

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 05:15 »
Hehe, dialogue? Well, you are thinking of DoomRL as ADOM I suppose?

You start on Mars surface, you can wander from location to location. You have to follow the orders from High Command from Earth (since there is noone alive (really?) on Mars except you). At some point, you could join the dark side, turn into some hellish mutant, get granted with new powers (hurling fireballs, spitting acid). Your task would be to wipe out all remaining human forces on Mars.

But there also would be a third alignment, Aliens that ones ruled Mars. Hey it's the official story behind Doom 3, right?

Implementing such stuff (maps, plot, characters, new weapons, powers) would be really, really difficult, and there is only one men behind the project. This would require a bigger effort, from many people so such game could evolve.

In the beginning, thinking up a plot would be really difficult. What is UAC really up to? Why the  hell forces want everybody dead? What are those aliens? What do they want, etc. etc.
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Dakin

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 05:25 »
You are right. However I was speaking generaly, rogulike thinking, for other or potential games not DoomRL or other and anything specific.
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rekenne

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 14:50 »
I don't think RLs need plot. I think it actually would hurt the game. Realistically, unless you make the plot randomly generated (... Good luck. I don't think you could and have it be quality), then it would be an annoyance the tenth time you died and went through the same... damn ... thing over again. Ever play a game with unskippable FMVs that happened between a save point and a hard section? Yeah. It'd be something like that.

ADOM has only the bare semblance of a plot, and even that gets a bit old the umpteenth time you do it.
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Dakin

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 09:43 »
Quote from: rekenne on February 24, 2009, 14:50
ADOM has only the bare semblance of a plot, and even that gets a bit old the umpteenth time you do it.

All the dialogue would make different game. Some people like it, some not. There are quick roguelikes and longer ones but still RPG like are missing (since ADOM has only semblance of a plot), and dialogues always give you more options for a different game and plot when playing again. Generaly I imagine RPG with roguelike enviroment.
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rekenne

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 11:35 »
There are RPGs that have roguelike elements, but I don't think a Roguelike with that set of RPG elements would work, due to the ironman nature of roguelikes.
Diablo 1/2 or Azure Dreams or such fit the former. But they lack the real characteristics of a Roguelike - They aren't ironman. The fun of a roguelike, in my opinion, is antithetical to having a story. You die. Repeatedly. You analyse why you die and see if you can't do it better. The mechanics are why a Roguelike is fun. People play Diablo in a way that emphasizes mechanics, yes, but ... It gets boring in my opinion, because it takes too long. In DoomRL, you have a build go to completion in an hour, if that. In D2, it takes days, if you're lucky.
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Visalos

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 15:51 »
who's there to talk to in Doom? "Hello, my lord Baron. I love what you've done with this layer of the Pit, the impalings really bring out the evil vibe of this shrine to Perdition. By the way, I hope you don't mind too terribly if I fry you with plasma." Baron: "ROARHOWL." yeah.
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Kao

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 16:31 »
Quote from: Visalos on February 25, 2009, 15:51
who's there to talk to in Doom? "Hello, my lord Baron. I love what you've done with this layer of the Pit, the impalings really bring out the evil vibe of this shrine to Perdition. By the way, I hope you don't mind too terribly if I fry you with plasma." Baron: "ROARHOWL." yeah.

Smartest comment of the day in here. Amen to that
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Melon

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2009, 01:25 »
Quote from: Visalos on February 25, 2009, 15:51
who's there to talk to in Doom? "Hello, my lord Baron. I love what you've done with this layer of the Pit, the impalings really bring out the evil vibe of this shrine to Perdition. By the way, I hope you don't mind too terribly if I fry you with plasma." Baron: "ROARHOWL." yeah.

Well, if you want such clever dialogue, why not ;P

I think what the author of this tread ment, was to create some plot in DoomRL, after that dialogue would be nice. Anyway, I mentioned above, it's just to much work to think about a plot, that would make sense. It would take even more time to make dialogues.

Nah, guess we will just stick with the normal one-against-all DoomRL.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2009, 02:34 »
"Hey you, former human, could you show me the way to the exit room?"
"Waaaaah... Raaaarrr"
*Bang*
"Aaah, It was a boring conversation anyway"
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ParaSait

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Re: Dialogue in RL
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2009, 04:51 »
Or like this:

"Hey Cybie, wanna be my friend? =)"
"OK."
...
OK, you win.
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