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[Melon]

1) I was wondering, how come our super-futuristic space marine doesn't use a helmet and a visor? I postulate that in future releases of DooM RL there should be an inventory slot for a helmet and a visor. What will be benefits/drawbacks?

Helmet:
First of all, wearing a helmet reduces a chance that monsters will score a critical hit on you. Also they grant you some minor protection. However, wearing heavier helmets tend to reduce your perception, they slow you down a bit and even reduce your accuracy. There is even a prototype helmet from UAC, that grants user with great protections, but reduces the line of sight by two...

Visor:
Visors are important piece of marine's equipment. By using special filters, marine can see objects much sharper. It allows to spot enemies in camo much easier. More advanced visors grant user with infrared vision, making it easier to target in dark places (something like intuition, but the area is LoS + 2 spaces)

2) You might be arguing, that visors are something really powerfull. Well they, are. For example, somebody finds a visor, that increases his LoS and grant the smaller intuition. Since I have greater LoS, why the hell should I invest in Cat Eyes? I have smaller version of intuitions. Not only that, visors improved my accuracy.

Imagine a player that has found a visor and invests in other traits. On lower levels of hell, visors get destroyed. What now? We have a marine without Eagle Eye, wihtout Cat Eyes who barely can hit his enemy.
He will quickly get butchered by Arch-viles.

Still to powerfull? Make monsters more powerfull.

3) Not Doomish? It is Doomish!

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Few do know, but actually there's a "Head" slot in the DoomRL codebase. A few interesting features are planned for it, however, I'd love to gear your ideas, people :)

[Kg]

I like the idea, but not to sure about visors.. but helmets - hell yeah. Or maybe something like helmet with integrated visor - that would be nice.

[Melon]

I like the idea, but not to sure about visors.. but helmets - hell yeah. Or maybe something like helmet with integrated visor - that would be nice.

The visors (or vision googles) have to be seperate. Army is trying to make it's gear as much independent from other gear as possible. If your visors break, you only replace them, not the whole helmet. That's at least how I see it.

[Hipster Scumbag]

The visors (or vision googles) have to be seperate. Army is trying to make it's gear as much independent from other gear as possible. If your visors break, you only replace them, not the whole helmet. That's at least how I see it.

Two slots is really overdoing it.  I don't really know what you'd need helmet for without tampering with the balance of player equipment vs monsters - buffing LOS is going to be overpowered, especially if you already have a rank or two of Cat Eye, and even an armor value of 1 for a helmet would be pretty goofy (a helmet that protects you as well as a whole set of green armor? no thanks)

I guess I could get behind some very minor bonuses for an integrated helmet/visor item, such as reduced crit likelyhood or a minor accuracy bonus (here again we get into trouble as even a bonus of 1 is quite a bit, equal to half a level of eagle eye).

[Melon]

The visors (or vision googles) have to be seperate. Army is trying to make it's gear as much independent from other gear as possible. If your visors break, you only replace them, not the whole helmet. That's at least how I see it.

Two slots is really overdoing it.  I don't really know what you'd need helmet for without tampering with the balance of player equipment vs monsters - buffing LOS is going to be overpowered, especially if you already have a rank or two of Cat Eye, and even an armor value of 1 for a helmet would be pretty goofy (a helmet that protects you as well as a whole set of green armor? no thanks)

I guess I could get behind some very minor bonuses for an integrated helmet/visor item, such as reduced crit likelyhood or a minor accuracy bonus (here again we get into trouble as even a bonus of 1 is quite a bit, equal to half a level of eagle eye).

Getting a visor doesn't guarantee that you will have all those bonuses. Standart visors will grant you increased accuracy, only those really, really good one will give you some bonus to LOS (1 I think is absolutely enough) or infravision (reduced intuition over +2 of LOS ).

As for goofiness, helmet grants you protection from receicing criticals and normal damage. And helmet grants protection from criticalls. Only. If a monster scores a critical on you, armour is drained from the helmet. If a monster hits you normally, armour is drained from... body armour.

As for tamperaing the balance of player equipment vs monsters... Can I say what's in the beta, Kornel?

[Mr_Dead]

Perhaps wearing a helmet could cause a monsters possible maximum damage toward you to be lowered.  With visors, can't think of anything except maybe a slight percentage increase in accuracy, perhaps even causing a no miss chance by allowing your accuracy to go up above the 98% area.  Seems that if you had both a sight enhancing effect from visors and cateye it would be to overpowered regardless of whether visors were able to be destroyed or not.

[Frankosity]

As for goofiness, helmet grants you protection from receicing criticals and normal damage. And helmet grants protection from criticalls. Only. If a monster scores a critical on you, armour is drained from the helmet. If a monster hits you normally, armour is drained from... body armour.

You keep bringing up criticals, which don't exist in this game and, I hope, never will.

[Vestin]

Getting a visor doesn't guarantee that you will have all those bonuses. Standart visors will grant you increased accuracy, only those really, really good one will give you some bonus to LOS (1 I think is absolutely enough) or infravision (reduced intuition over +2 of LOS ).

No. Just - no. Why ? Because

Two slots is really overdoing it.

We have armour, boots, a weapon a secondary weapon and the new helmet slot. There is no need for a very specialized slot. The whole point of roguelike items is that they should be as diverse and random as possible, with many not-so-overpowered options.
The real questions is: what can we put in the 'helmet' slot ? We need to think of the spectrum of possible effects and names...

Here's my list of ideas (of course - the bigger the benefits, the harder to find the items are. Also - some combinations can be used to create unique headgear :>):
1* +1 or even +2 to armour
2* +1 or +2 to LOS (We could make +1 helmets quite common... and lower the defaut LOS of the player by 1 ]:>)
3* 10%-25% more XP from kills
4* Dilated Perception: higher fire / reload speed and/or chance do dodge

We could even have some activated abilities (with a limited numer of charges) you would use by pressing the fire button while in "look mode".
For example -
5*a scanner (AKA - portable computer map),
6* heat/motion detector (shows monsters within a specific radius regardless of walls),
7* perhaps some chemical stimulants (AKA portable berserk - could be shorter then normal and, once again, with limited charges),
8* painkillers (portable healing)...

9* OK - THIS is something awesome... A portable force-field generator! Makes you invunerable for 2-5 turns but also makes you IMMOBILE. Either completely (meaning that you can't do anything but wait) or allowing you to use items but not shoot anything. It would be great for healing during the heat of battle but most of all - it would allow you to survive a nuke blast.
Of course - you could just make the force field disappear EITHER after a certain period of time OR after it suffers sufficient damage (meaning a monster could shread your sanctum beforethe nuke would go off).
10* Of course - the helmet could have a built-in phase device (hell - some might even come with an unlimited numer of charges and simply with a time limit between them). Not a homing one, of course...
11* Remote control - the ability to pull levers from a distance (which makes me wonder - do we get the XP from monsters dying of lava/acid into which we shoved them ? We should, IMO.)
12* Telekinesis - the ability to push monsters / barrels / items from a distance... (Come to think of it - we might even have a "Telekinetic" trait...)

Of course - if there was more than one look-mode ability available at the same time, you could cycle (of course - without any turns passing) through them with the "swap weapon" or even "reload" button.

[Kg]

Nice ideas! But I wonder how helmet would affect your reload time :D I mean in real life ;d

[Melon]

Getting a visor doesn't guarantee that you will have all those bonuses. Standart visors will grant you increased accuracy, only those really, really good one will give you some bonus to LOS (1 I think is absolutely enough) or infravision (reduced intuition over +2 of LOS ).

No. Just - no. Why ? Because

Two slots is really overdoing it.

We have armour, boots, a weapon a secondary weapon and the new helmet slot. There is no need for a very specialized slot. The whole point of roguelike items is that they should be as diverse and random as possible, with many not-so-overpowered options.
The real questions is: what can we put in the 'helmet' slot ? We need to think of the spectrum of possible effects and names...

Here's my list of ideas (of course - the bigger the benefits, the harder to find the items are. Also - some combinations can be used to create unique headgear :>):
1* +1 or even +2 to armour
2* +1 or +2 to LOS (We could make +1 helmets quite common... and lower the defaut LOS of the player by 1 ]:>)
3* 10%-25% more XP from kills
4* Dilated Perception: higher fire / reload speed and/or chance do dodge

We could even have some activated abilities (with a limited numer of charges) you would use by pressing the fire button while in "look mode".
For example -
5*a scanner (AKA - portable computer map),
6* heat/motion detector (shows monsters within a specific radius regardless of walls),
7* perhaps some chemical stimulants (AKA portable berserk - could be shorter then normal and, once again, with limited charges),
8* painkillers (portable healing)...

9* OK - THIS is something awesome... A portable force-field generator! Makes you invunerable for 2-5 turns but also makes you IMMOBILE. Either completely (meaning that you can't do anything but wait) or allowing you to use items but not shoot anything. It would be great for healing during the heat of battle but most of all - it would allow you to survive a nuke blast.
Of course - you could just make the force field disappear EITHER after a certain period of time OR after it suffers sufficient damage (meaning a monster could shread your sanctum beforethe nuke would go off).
10* Of course - the helmet could have a built-in phase device (hell - some might even come with an unlimited numer of charges and simply with a time limit between them). Not a homing one, of course...
11* Remote control - the ability to pull levers from a distance (which makes me wonder - do we get the XP from monsters dying of lava/acid into which we shoved them ? We should, IMO.)
12* Telekinesis - the ability to push monsters / barrels / items from a distance... (Come to think of it - we might even have a "Telekinetic" trait...)

Of course - if there was more than one look-mode ability available at the same time, you could cycle (of course - without any turns passing) through them with the "swap weapon" or even "reload" button.

And I thought I was the only one being cynical <:

[Vestin]

Nice ideas! But I wonder how helmet would affect your reload time :D I mean in real life ;d

And THAT is why it's called "Dilated Perception" (shamelessly named after an equivalent in BloodRayne ;). Most of the headgear upgrades I suggested work because the helmet plugs itself to your brain and/or circulatory system. Dilated Perception is something similar to bullet-time. The only thing different is how it works - it makes your senses more up-to-date, which causes you to perceive things a lot more clearly and gives you more time to plan out your every move.

Come to think about it - it would best work as a manually activated charge-limited ability. It should also make your character "tired" after use.

And I thought I was the only one being cynical <:

I have to admit - I have NO idea what you mean. How the hell AM I being cynical ?
If you refer to the fact that I don't want a sixth slot but a LOT of fifth slot items, then you miss the point. I don't want less stuff. I just don't want a VERY limited amount of things that would be automaticly put into the "visor" slot which half the time would be empty. You should have a lot of things to choose from.

[Hipster Scumbag]

Getting a visor doesn't guarantee that you will have all those bonuses. Standart visors will grant you increased accuracy, only those really, really good one will give you some bonus to LOS (1 I think is absolutely enough) or infravision (reduced intuition over +2 of LOS ).

No. Just - no. Why ? Because

Two slots is really overdoing it.

We have armour, boots, a weapon a secondary weapon and the new helmet slot. There is no need for a very specialized slot. The whole point of roguelike items is that they should be as diverse and random as possible, with many not-so-overpowered options.
The real questions is: what can we put in the 'helmet' slot ? We need to think of the spectrum of possible effects and names...

Here's my list of ideas (of course - the bigger the benefits, the harder to find the items are. Also - some combinations can be used to create unique headgear :>):
1* +1 or even +2 to armour
2* +1 or +2 to LOS (We could make +1 helmets quite common... and lower the defaut LOS of the player by 1 ]:>)
3* 10%-25% more XP from kills
4* Dilated Perception: higher fire / reload speed and/or chance do dodge

We could even have some activated abilities (with a limited numer of charges) you would use by pressing the fire button while in "look mode".
For example -
5*a scanner (AKA - portable computer map),
6* heat/motion detector (shows monsters within a specific radius regardless of walls),
7* perhaps some chemical stimulants (AKA portable berserk - could be shorter then normal and, once again, with limited charges),
8* painkillers (portable healing)...

9* OK - THIS is something awesome... A portable force-field generator! Makes you invunerable for 2-5 turns but also makes you IMMOBILE. Either completely (meaning that you can't do anything but wait) or allowing you to use items but not shoot anything. It would be great for healing during the heat of battle but most of all - it would allow you to survive a nuke blast.
Of course - you could just make the force field disappear EITHER after a certain period of time OR after it suffers sufficient damage (meaning a monster could shread your sanctum beforethe nuke would go off).
10* Of course - the helmet could have a built-in phase device (hell - some might even come with an unlimited numer of charges and simply with a time limit between them). Not a homing one, of course...
11* Remote control - the ability to pull levers from a distance (which makes me wonder - do we get the XP from monsters dying of lava/acid into which we shoved them ? We should, IMO.)
12* Telekinesis - the ability to push monsters / barrels / items from a distance... (Come to think of it - we might even have a "Telekinetic" trait...)

Of course - if there was more than one look-mode ability available at the same time, you could cycle (of course - without any turns passing) through them with the "swap weapon" or even "reload" button.

All preposterously overpowered.

[Vestin]

All preposterously overpowered.

Come on - most of this stuff is not binary. The duration / strength / numer of charges of most of them can be tweaked to balance things out.
Also - I think that we should learn from the best. And I heard the folks at Blizzard say that you should NEVER balance too early. You should think of things that could be awesome first and worry about the balance later.
Don't you like ANY of my ideas ? I find at least 9, 11 and 12 to be quite creative...

Besides - you shouldn't take everything I write to the letter. Just like in philosophy - if you claim that there is something wrong with a theory, your interlocutor might just fix it and still stand by his idea. You have to prove the WHOLE thing wrong to make someone's point invalid. As such - you'll have to try a LOT harder than that.

[Melon]

All preposterously overpowered.

Come on - most of this stuff is not binary. The duration / strength / numer of charges of most of them can be tweaked to balance things out.
Also - I think that we should learn from the best. And I heard the folks at Blizzard say that you should NEVER balance too early. You should think of things that could be awesome first and worry about the balance later.
Don't you like ANY of my ideas ? I find at least 9, 11 and 12 to be quite creative...

Besides - you shouldn't take everything I write to the letter. Just like in philosophy - if you claim that there is something wrong with a theory, your interlocutor might just fix it and still stand by his idea. You have to prove the WHOLE thing wrong to make someone's point invalid. As such - you'll have to try a LOT harder than that.

You took everything I had written to the capital letter and purposedly owerpowered items to make the idea of helmet + visor laughable. Well, that is your choice, I still think that helmet + visor is a good idea, with decent bonuses and making the monsters bit more powerfull.