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Author Topic: Multi-purpose MODS  (Read 5320 times)

Vestin

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Multi-purpose MODS
« on: June 02, 2009, 17:24 »

I
I was pondering possible modifications to mods... Making a LOT of different types would result in a total mess, they would be all over the place and you'd sift through them to find something of interest. I wanted:
1* every mod to be useful
2* a lot of diversity between mods
3* mods for everything you can put on
4* mods to be (relatively) RARE but VALUABLE.
And it IS possible. We can have FOUR kinds of mods that would act different, depending on what you stick them to !

II
I made a list of things mods could do. Then I put them into four categories: Defense, Power, Ranger and Special.

III
Here's the list:
Mod type \ Item typeProjectile WeaponMelee Weapon
Armour
BootsHelmet
Defense
- Reload Time+Attack Speed+Armour Class+Boots Armour25% chance to halve any damage received
Power
+Weapon Damage+Melee DamageAttacker receives 25% of the damage it dealt in melee+Melee Damage+Melee Damage
Ranger
+Weapon Accuracy+Melee Accuracy-Move Speed Penalty+Move Speed+Accuracy
Special
+Magazine+Knockback+Durability-Knockback+20% XP gained from kills

IV
When a mod drops, chances should be as followed:
35% - Defense Mod
30% - Power Mod
25% - Ranger Mod
10% - Special Mod

V
If you disagree with something in particular - don't bring the WHOLE idea down, unless there is NO way you think it could be salvaged to be of any use. I know some things appear to be overpowered and other weird. Let me explain in advance:

1* Melee weapon mods in general - you don't just STICK them to a knife - you USE the mods on the weapon and it changes shape or whatever.
2* Armour Power mod - the armour emits an electroshock when the enemy attacks you in melee. You still get the same amount of damage, yet whatever hurt you gets zapped.
3* Boots Power Mod - the boots are SPIKY. Let's be honest - we all want to kick demons in the face with spiky shoes xP.
4* Helmet Defense mod - 25% is NOT as much as you would like to think it is. You get full damage three times and half the damage the forth time. It might save your life sometimes... But most of the time you get shot SO many times that it just doesn't do much.
IMO - it could scale like this: 25% / 35% / 45% (for 1, 2 and 3 mods). Getting hit for half the damage almost half the time would be neat but not that game-breaking if you'd have to find 3 Defense Mods first (and resist the temptation to just slap them on the armour for +3 in Armour Class which count for every shot taken ;).
5* Helmet Power mod - the helmet is as spiky as the boots. Yeah - just like the ceremonial viking helmet ;).
6* Helmet Special - again - it's not that much. It's an extra level for roughly every 5 levels... and that is IF you found it in the beginning of the game. After a certain point it becomes virtually USELESS, as you won't really get any more levels before hitting the arena anyway... So it might as well scale like: 20%/40%/60%. You'd have to find 3 special mods (1:10 chance) early and put them on a single helmet (Whizkid required) to really take advantage of leveling up like crazy... which is a snowball's chance in hell, as Whizkid itself requires a bit of leveling up and you'd have two slots clogged with the 2 special mods you've by chance found... You get the picture ;).

So - what do you think ?
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Kg

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 01:46 »

I kinda like idea that the rarest special mod will increase magazine in normal weapons (I'm sick of bunch of magazine mods in my games ;P), idea of +20 % XP is just great.. but I hope there will be possible to get advanced helmet! :) (or maybe new challenge, where you start with advanced helmet and chance to get mods is little higher?). So, overall idea is nice... but I understand mods will work normally, like attached forever? Maybe we should so sth like ability to remove mods from items, but that will require Whizzkid 3 !! :) Oh yeah! And Whizz 3 let's say will increase slots by 1 but only for normal weapons.
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Blade

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 06:42 »

I like the idea of multi-purpose mods. Specific effects may be changed, but the whole idea seems better for me than having 3-4 mods for each part of equipment.
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Vestin

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 07:11 »

I'm sick of bunch of magazine mods in my games ;P
And THAT is why I think that the magazine mod should be a lot better than it is now.
+1 more rocket chamber in the RL, 2 more slots in DS (or just a third slot and make the DS a tripple-barrel shotgun when modded with the Special Mod !), etc.
The Special ones are so rare that they need to be useful. Also - every mod should have SOME degree of usefulness, so that you'll want to slap it onto something the moment you get it... and the only problem is to choose the thing you want to upgrade ;).

idea of +20 % XP is just great.. but I hope there will be possible to get advanced helmet! :)
Like I said - the game is so short that you'll want the XP bonus only if you get the Special mod really early.

So, overall idea is nice... but I understand mods will work normally, like attached forever?
Yeah. I think there should be no way to salvage a mod. In my interpretation - it doesn't ATTACH itself into the gear - it MODIFIES it. It's not a modificatION - it's a modificatOR.

Whizzkid 3 !! :) Oh yeah! And Whizz 3 (...)
IMO - it's a lot better to have few powerful traits than a lot of ones that require you to put a LOT of points to become useful (or you just put a single point for the initial effect and don't bother upgrading more... Like the three-step Badass trait).

Let's see... I think you should be able to put one mod of any kind on anything you want, regardless of traits.

Also (I'm not sure about this one but - what the hell. You don't max out a lot of stuff anyway, so - let's give an incentive) Level 3 of Son of a Gun should give you the ability to put an extra mod on pistols, level 3 of Reloader should do that for RL... Level 3 of Brute for melee weapons. Hellrunner 3 - on boots. Eagle Eye 3 - on helmets, Tough as nails 3 - on armours.

Whizkid should give you the ability to put 1 (or 2?) more mods on anything.
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Kg

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 14:02 »

Quote from: Vestin
Also (I'm not sure about this one but - what the hell. You don't max out a lot of stuff anyway, so - let's give an incentive) Level 3 of Son of a Gun should give you the ability to put an extra mod on pistols, level 3 of Reloader should do that for RL... Level 3 of Brute for melee weapons. Hellrunner 3 - on boots. Eagle Eye 3 - on helmets, Tough as nails 3 - on armours.

Whizkid should give you the ability to put 1 (or 2?) more mods on anything.
Yeah, I would agree, for me Whizzkid is kind of useless until you encounter advanced weapon, because 3 slots in total with Whizzkid (3) which don't happen early, is too low.. And I think maxing any trait should give some nice bonuses, we can be creative here, like maxing Berserk AND Brute would give you ability to steal enemies hp, but some low amount, not to be so powerful (and only when using melee weapons), so I'm so on Whizzkid giving you ability to put you 2 more mods on anything per level (now it's one for normal weapons and 4 for advanced), so you would have 2 more mods per lvl, but for advanced weapons too.
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Dervis

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 14:42 »

You got a good idea, and it's got a point because it's usual for people to see very few mods of one type (one game i saw 2 magazine mods and 8! boots protection mods). Nevertheless you're overdoing it. I would just take what's already in the game and consolidate it:

Mod --------------------- Weapon ------------------ Armor ---------------------- Boots
Damage/Protection       +1 damage die                 +1 Protection                       +2 Protection
Reload/?                   -20% reload time                        ??                                     ??
Speed/Mobility            +10% fire speed             +10% move speed                +10% move speed
Magazine/Durability      +30% magazine                +50% durability                   +50% durability
Accuracy/?                       +1 hit                               ??                                     ??

Reload -> Recovery: -20% knockback (armor/boots)
Accuracy -> Lightweight: +10% dodge (armor/boots)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 14:51 by Dervis »
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Hipster Scumbag

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 14:55 »

You got a good idea, and it's got a point because it's usual for people to see very few mods of one type (one game i saw 2 magazine mods and 8! boots protection mods). Nevertheless you're overdoing it. I would just take what's already in the game and consolidate it:

It doesn't seem to make a lot of "thematic" sense, but I'd be for this as far as gameplay effects.  Concerning the OP, I don't think you should be able to apply magazine mods to rocket launchers - it's just too much, a literal 100% increase in magazine size and a single mod would fix the rocket launcher's main drawback.
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Dervis

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 15:03 »

You can't apply a magazine mod to Rocket Launcher, Shotgun and Double Shotguns.
There was an exploit in a previous version where you could load weapons over their clip size if you knew how, and yes, a Rocket Launcher with no reload need was that awesome :P.

P.S. - Ever found the Missile Launcher?
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Vestin

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 16:26 »

Concerning the OP, I don't think you should be able to apply magazine mods to rocket launchers - it's just too much, a literal 100% increase in magazine size and a single mod would fix the rocket launcher's main drawback.
I figured that the Special mods should do something... well - special. They would upset the balance we have, sure... That doesn't have to mean it's a bad idea. It would open up a lot of new possibilities for the player. The mods wouldn't be THAT ubiquitous and you'd think twice about what to apply them to. The special mods would be quite rare and the limit on the numer of appliable mods on a single piece of equipment would be strict.

Most of all - if you oppose this, you should also oppose unique items, as they are a lot more powerful than the regular weapons and appear at random. I just want to make sure you have a choice between taking a unique and sticking to that wonderfully modded piece of metal you crafted.

Also - the idea is
1* To have mods for all kinds of equipment we are going to have (yes, including melee weapons and helmets)
2* To have as few overall mod types as possible
3* That the type names are more or less self-explanatory (so you have at least a slight idea of what it's going to improve, without consulting a table)
4* For every type of mod to be somewhat useful on every piece of equipment
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Melon

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 23:33 »

You can't apply a magazine mod to Rocket Launcher, Shotgun and Double Shotguns.
There was an exploit in a previous version where you could load weapons over their clip size if you knew how, and yes, a Rocket Launcher with no reload need was that awesome :P.

P.S. - Ever found the Missile Launcher?
Twice, and twice the Revenant's Launcher.
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Shinji_Ikari_9th

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 15:49 »

You got a good idea, and it's got a point because it's usual for people to see very few mods of one type (one game i saw 2 magazine mods and 8! boots protection mods). Nevertheless you're overdoing it. I would just take what's already in the game and consolidate it:

Mod --------------------- Weapon ------------------ Armor ---------------------- Boots
Damage/Protection       +1 damage die                 +1 Protection                       +2 Protection
Reload/?                   -20% reload time                        ??                                     ??
Speed/Mobility            +10% fire speed             +10% move speed                +10% move speed
Magazine/Durability      +30% magazine                +50% durability                   +50% durability
Accuracy/?                       +1 hit                               ??                                     ??

Reload -> Recovery: -20% knockback (armor/boots)
Accuracy -> Lightweight: +10% dodge (armor/boots)

Not a bad start.  I agree, that it gets frustrating sometimes having to decide what to grab a what to leave.  Consolidated like this, I'd just have to fret about where to use them.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 07:54 »

Okay, I almost implemented this in the way Dervis suggested. The only thing left is the Accuracy/? mod for Armors/Boots -- I don't like the idea of the Dodge bonus (easier dodging when wearing armor??), so I'd gladly listen to other suggestions.
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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 08:51 »

Maybe accuracy modules on armour could give you melee to-hit bonus? Something like 'close combat support systems'?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 09:06 by Gargulec »
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Dervis

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 08:57 »

Quote
[mod] -- FS#---: Badass is now a single level trait that stops Health degradation and gives a bonus to knockback stopping. Also it gives a 25% chance of not getting hurt at all when receiving <1 damage
The second effect Badass had on 0.9.8.11 beta 1. It's all i can think of that doesn't fit too badly on armour.

On another topic, have you considered increasing Accuracy mods to +2 hit to match Eagle eye? As it is they're clearly the worst mods.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 09:01 by Dervis »
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Zi

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Re: Multi-purpose MODS
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 23:10 »

Quote
On another topic, have you considered increasing Accuracy mods to +2 hit to match Eagle eye? As it is they're clearly the worst mods.
I totally agree with this.  Right now I never apply accuracy mods to anything.  I also rarely apply speed mods - but now they'll be REALLY valuable since they've been merged with boot mobility mods.
+2 Accuracy mods would however be rather nice to use with chainguns and plasma rifles.

Also - keep the reload % bonus bigger than the magazine % bonus - otherwise, the magazine mod will be superior in every situation.


One note I'd like to bring up, though - mods to weapons/boots are more 'permanent' than ones to armor, so likely they'd be higher priority.  Of course I look at other players' mortems and I see their 3 sets of PDM modified red armor when they win, and I always wonder how they keep their armor intact (and find all those mods in the first place!), so maybe I'm just poor at keeping my armor around.
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