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[Dervis]

Finding the Chained Court is nasty but that's part of the challenge i think. Taking Hellrunner or Tough as Nails first helps smooth it out a bit, but you'll end up just running for the stairs. This part isn't too bad.

The real problem is the way between Chained Court and Unholy Cathedral. Even with the chainsaw, killing enemies while not berserking is very painful, and even if you evade every shot you'll end up burning 20+ hp just to kill one Caco or HK in melee. Getting a berserker hit with a chainsaw is very rare unless you're berserking to start with so this doesn't help either. If a single Revenant or Vile shows up and you're not berserking you're in trouble.
However once you get the SoL, the berserker hits become relatively common and you might even be able to chain berserker hits for consecutive levels.

Possible solutions:
- Increase the base chance for Berserker to activate (possibly at the expense of part of the damage portion).
- Increase armour / evasion against melee attacks only. If HKs didn't take 10%+ of my hp every melee attack while ripping my armour to shreds, having to swing 6 turns to kill it wouldn't be so bad.

P.S. - I know it's troublesome to fix this because mixed shotgun/melee builds are very good once you master them, and improving the melee portion would make them too powerful. The obvious step would lie in changing the rules of the Challenge. (50% chance to dodge any melee attack is my latest idea)

[Zi]

JC
* Complete Angel of Purity on Nightmare! with 100% kills.
* Complete Angel of Haste on Nightmare with 100% kills.(can't think of anything harder yet possible than this last one) :P
* Kill JC using your fists. This one is for Blade :P.

Has anyone ever beaten any form of Nightmare with 100% kills?  Don't resurrected enemies count against you?  You'd have to nuke/flood at least 24 floors!  Or patiently let enemies resurrect, lure them to doors/other corpses/stairs, and delete them that way one by one.  And farm enough ammo to sustain this.



AoD - EASY - not hard, just annoying
AoMr - MEDIUM - somewhat more difficult than vanilla - no rapid weapons, no rockets, no bfg
AoH - MEDIUM to VERY HARD - depending on difficulty level
AoRA - EASY/MEDIUM (for a Nightmare player, as they are used to moving fast) - for players at lower difficulty levels, may be a much greater challenge than vanilla because they're used to methodically clearing out areas
AoMC - wouldn't know
Ao100 - VERY HARD/BLADE - while you have chances to recover from mistakes, deeper levels are really dangerous if you're not super-careful - there can be truly ludicrous amounts of monsters on levels 80-100 on Ultra-violent, and even more so on N! - just look at kill counts on the mortems
AoPw - wouldn't know
AoD&D - MEDIUM - basically you are forced into (lots of) eagle eye and ironman (but without unlocking intuition/cat eye), works well with rapid weapons
AoLT - MEDIUM/HARD - safety net is much reduced, can't carry as much of a buffer in ammo or health recovery
AoB - BLADE(?) - I haven't figured out a good way to beat this yet
AoP(urity) - HARD - some recovery removed, durations for berserk and invulnerability are pretty short on non-N!, I don't miss them that much (I miss them on N!, though, miss them very much)
AoPc - VERY HARD - I haven't mastered this at higher difficulty levels
AoI - MEDIUM/HARD - can't save health for a rainy day/sticky situation
AoMs - VERY HARD/BLADE - one mistake and you're on thin ice.  Another - toast.  Can't shrug off minor hits like you can in normal games because there's usually at least some health available on each level to compensate for it.  As with Dervis, I can't imagine tackling this on higher difficulty levels without Cat eye (the benefits of Intuition come much later).

[Thomas]

I spose I should explain why I ordered the challenges as I did.

AoB VERY HARD: It used to be relatively simple, but it's gotten harder. If you get some decent RNG love then it isn't so bad, as AoB is very binary. You either find an enemy that you can't kill in melee (Even shotgunners usually fall under this) or you find enemies that are pretty easy melee kills (Like Arachnotrons)
AoMr EASY: Please, this is as easy as a normal game. You fire insanely quickly and are incredibly ammo-efficient, so killing the cyberdemon is no problem with half a stack of ammo. As long as you aren't trying to kill everything, you'll be totally fine.
AoD N/A: I have never played this and it doesn't sound interesting at all. Remove it from the game.
AoI MEDIUM: It's not really that hard, I can beat it on any difficulty aside Nightmare!. The other challenges (barring AoLT) all out-shine it in some way.
AoLT EASY: It's very easy in comparison to the other challenges. If you can beat any other challenge, you can beat this.
AoH MEDIUM: It's basically like shifting the game up a single difficulty. As such, beating it on UV or Nightmare! is a pain, but it's alright on H,NTR.
AoPu HARD: Powerups are your lifeblood, ESPECIALLY in Nightmare!. Taking them away is very very bad.
AoMs VERY HARD: While you can't heal, you can still reduce damage in so many ways that it's not quite BLADE. Doing this and AoPu at the same time is BLADE.
AoDD N/A: Doesn't interest me.
AoRA EASY: This is pretty much standard stuff if you play on Nightmare!. I never take more than 5 minutes to do the important things anyway, like locate the stairs and most powerups.
Ao100 BLADE: I don't like Ao100, tedium is your biggest obstacle to conquer. Don't get me wrong though, it's ludicrously difficult. Just tedious too.
AoPc HARD: Eh, it's not really that difficult. You just need a little luck with not finding too many autohit enemies or lost souls.
AoPw N/A: This mode puts me to sleep every time. Remove it from the game.
AoMC N/A: I haven't really played it that much, and making a decent strategy for it is weird.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

There are some changes I'm thinking I'd like to do do to challenges -- if anyone would object please post:
AoD - remove, (or additionaly decrease sight range by 2?)
AoDD - remove
AoRA - reduce the time to 3 minutes
AoPw - remove.

Opinions?

[Dervis]

Looks fine to me.

[Gargulec]

Keep AoDD. I did not have an opportunity to play it, and it sounds very interesting.

[Malek Deneith]

There are some changes I'm thinking I'd like to do do to challenges -- if anyone would object please post:
AoD - remove, (or additionaly decrease sight range by 2?)
AoDD - remove
AoRA - reduce the time to 3 minutes
AoPw - remove.

Opinions?

I'm not sure about removing AoPw, considering how only testers have seen it so far, but do as you will. One thing though - if this isn't too much of problem, I'd leave the relevant flags/switches for these three that are to be removed. This way, once the final release hits players whou would want to play those will be able to, assuming that game modability is still in plans, put them back in for own use.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

I'll leave them as a mod-pack :D

[Captain Trek]

So, since it's apparently now being removed anyway, what exactly is AoPw?

[Zi]

AoD in its current form serves no purpose.  No map memory is simply an annoyance for the player.

If player sight range was even reduced to 7 (and could not be boosted with Cat eye) - it'd be an entirely different challenge.  I suspect it'd actually be tremendously dangerous.

On that note - bring back Cat eye!  (as a master trait if you must)

AoDD - nothing wrong with it - if players don't like it they don't have to play it.  It's a different way to play the game.

AoRA - 3 minutes will probably add a tremendous amount of urgency.  I probably wouldn't even wear red armor if it was 3 minutes, so it'll probably be a unique challenge

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Anyway, we're derailing the topic... no one has any creative ideas what to require in the ranks?

[Zi]

I believe my proposal on experience ranks serves the purpose and solves the key problems with the current system, without throwing out what makes the current system nice.

The purpose of the experience rank system in my view is to reflect a player's accumulated progress over multiple games.  The problems with the current system is that a lot of players are stuck at a certain rank because the requirements of the next rank are unreasonably demanding.  However, it seems that most players don't want the top ranks to be easily achievable.  So my proposal extends the current 10 ranks to 1 + N * 9, where N is however many "materials" you decide to use.

One possible arrangement:

(Material) former human
- kill 50 * X former humans

(Material) imp
- kill 50 * X imps
- kill 10 * X enemies in melee

(Material) demon
- kill 50 * X demons
- kill 5 * X demons in melee

(Material) cacodemon
- kill 40 * X cacodemons
- kill 40 * X enemies with pistols
- kill 4 * X cacodemons in melee

(Material) Mancubus
- kill 30 * X mancubi
- kill 8 * X mancubi with pistols
- kill 3 * X mancubi in melee

(Material) Hell Knight
- kill 40 * X hell knights
- kill 10 * X hell knights with pistols
- kill 4 * X hell knights in melee

(Material) Hell Baron
- kill 30 * X hell barons
- kill 8 * X hell barons with pistols
- kill 3 * X hell knights in melee

(Material) Arch-vile
- kill 25 * X arch-viles
- kill 7 * X arch-viles with pistols
- kill 2 * X arch-viles in melee

(Material) Cyberdemon
- kill 3 * X cyberdemons
- kill 150 * X enemies total
- kill 10 * X enemies in melee

Material:  X
Bronze:  1
Silver:  3
Gold:  5
Platinum:  8
Opal:  10
Pearl:  15
Emerald:  20
Sapphire:  25
Ruby:  30
Diamond:  40

A player progresses from Human to Bronze Former Human, Bronze Imp, Bronze Demon, and so on until Bronze Cyberdemon, meeting each requirement along the way, then, Silver Former Human, Silver Imp, etc

This way the higher ranks, such as Ruby (whatever) and Diamond (whatever) are still rather hard to obtain, but players will regularly progress through ranks as the required numbers don't jump drastically from rank to rank, and their kills of all of the monster types will come into play.

The specifics can be tweaked of course, and even the 'kills with different weapons' idea can be incorporated.

[Captain Trek]

Zi's system sound pretty good... Maybe beef up some of the requirements for the later ranks a little bit (150 x 40 = 6,000 enemies and 10 x 40 = 400 enemies in melee really isn't all that difficult for the top rank of Diamond Cyberdemon, but on the other hand 3 x 40 = 120 Cyberdemons seems like enough), but it sounds like it'd be a very functional system with a more natural progression than the current one... I'd fully support, in one form or another...

[MaiZure]

Zi's idea seems sound. How about if it were more doom-ish or more military like rather than material based. Same concept and requirements except have it go something like: Green, Rookie, Experienced, Veteran, Elite...etc