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Author Topic: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!  (Read 10688 times)

Kornel Kisielewicz

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HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« on: August 02, 2009, 16:24 »

As player data is already broken, it's a good idea to revisit rank requirements. We all agree that higher level experience ranks are insane, time to come up with more sane ideas about them :).

Post your ideas! Post how you would like the rank system to look like, or even better, come up with your own version!

Although Skill rank requirements are fairly sane, it would still be good to discuss them, especially in the face of new possibilities that happened with the player data breakage. I'd especially like to hear Blade's, Dervis', Zi's opion on which of the later challenges are harder, and which easier than their respective level.

For reference, the current skill/exp ranks are in the wiki : http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ranks

Here are the previous topics on this issue, please read them!

http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1278.0
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1466.0
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1583.0
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1730.0

If you remember any other topic relevant to the discussion please post it!
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Zi

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 17:21 »

Regarding skill ranks and unlocking, would you consider a nonlinear tree-like unlocking system?  This way players who like a particular aspect of the game don't necessarily need to slog through things less enjoyable to them.

For example:  (Assuming vanilla up to HMP starts unlocked)
Beating HMP vanilla unlocks UV vanilla, which when beaten unlocks N! vanilla

Beating HNTR (or harder) vanilla unlocks Angel of Berserk, Marksmanship, Darkness, Light Travel, Haste, and most others (on HNTR difficulty)

Beating Light Travel (any difficulty) unlocks HNTR Purity and Impatience
Beating both Impatience and Purity (any difficulty) unlocks HNTR Masochism
etc

Beating any challenge on a certain difficulty unlocks the next one (e.g. beating AoMr on HNTR unlocks HMP AoMr)



I don't focus too much on xp ranks as they don't actually affect how the game plays, but with that said I don't mind the system in place now, with less inflated numbers.

One possible alternative is to have (material) (monster) ranks, where you start at a less-prestigious material, and go up the monster ranks the same way it's done now, with much lower numbers.  Then, once Cyberdemon is reached, raise the numbers, and move onto the next material.

For example:  (each rank requires fulfilling all the requirements of all previous ranks)

Bronze Former Human
- kill 50 former humans
Bronze Imp
- kill 50 imps
- kill 10 enemies melee

...

Bronze Cyberdemon
- kill 3 Cyberdemons

Silver Former Human
- kill 200 former humans

and so on.

So a player cycles through all of the monster ranks at lower quantities, then advances to a more precious metal/stone/whatever, then cycles through all the monsters again at higher quantities.
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Blade

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 17:27 »

Here is my vision of experience ranks:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The point is to make player use all the weapons in the game. They are "experience" ranks, after all.

For challenges - i'd place them in such order, by ascension of difficulty:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 06:08 by Blade »
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Dervis

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2009, 17:43 »

I tried to rank difficulties as i see them on the current system. Then i deleted some things i think are ok to clean up the post a bit. Then i just reformatted the whole thing :P. This considers SoL with NO armour bonus.

Getting Captain rank is too hard for its level in my opinion. Swap its challenges with Major.
Overlord / Blade / Legend: AoMr and AoLt are the easiest, then AoI / Ao100, hardest are AoMs / AoB.
- Angel of Purity on Nightmare! is one of the hardest challenges in the game, possibly around AoMs difficulty.
- Angel of Max Carnage is very fun, it should be implemented around mid rank.
- Angel of Pacifism deserves some love too.
Edit: Decided to move Nightmare! down one rank. Changed Overlord a bit.
Edit2: Blade rank was too easy so swapped it with Legend.

As I would change it (if it's coloured it's a change/addition):

Corporal (unchanged)
* Get to at least level 10 in any difficulty.
* Unlocks Angel of Berserk, Angel of Marksmanship, Angel of Darkness

Sergeant (almost unchanged, setup AoLT for next rank)
* Get to level 15 in any difficulty.
* Get to level 10 in Angel of Marksmanship.
* Get to level 5 in Angel of Berserk.

* Unlocks Ultra-Violence
* Unlocks Angel of Light Travel

Lieutenant
* Win on any difficulty.
* Get to level 15 in Angel of Marksmanship.
* Get to level 15 in Angel of Light Travel.

* Unlocks Angel of Impatience.

Captain
* Get to Level 15 in Angel of Impatience.
* Complete the Angel of Light Travel challenge.
* Complete the Angel of Marksmanship challenge.

* Unlocks Angel of Haste, Angel of Purity, Angel of D&D, Angel of Red Alert.
* Unlocks NIGHTMARE!

Major
* Win on Hurt Me Plenty or harder.
* Complete the Angel of Purity challenge.
* Get to level 15 in Angel of Berserk.

* Unlocks Angel of Masochism, Angel of 100, Angel of Pacifism, Angel of Max Carnage.

Colonel
* Win on Ultra-Violence or harder.
* Complete the Angel of Pacifism challenge.
* Complete the Angel of Max Carnage challenge.


General
* Complete the Angel of Berserk challenge.
* Complete the Angel of Masochism challenge.


Overlord
* Win the game on the Nightmare!
* Complete the Angel of 100 challenge.


Legend
* Complete the Angel of Marksmanship challenge on Nightmare!
* Complete the Angel of Impatience challenge on Nightmare!

Blade
* Complete the Angel of Masochism challenge on Nightmare!
* Complete the Angel of Berserk challenge on Nightmare!

JC
* Complete Angel of Purity on Nightmare! with 100% kills.

* Complete Angel of Haste on Nightmare with 100% kills.(can't think of anything harder yet possible than this last one) :P
* Kill JC using your fists. This one is for Blade :P.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 18:24 by Dervis »
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Gargulec

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2009, 18:00 »

Dervis idea is pretty good. But SoL with no armor bonus? What the...?
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Dervis

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2009, 18:12 »

SoL lost its armour bonus in 0.9.8.11 beta, which fixed the 'I have a SoL, I can rollover ANYTHING' syndrome. However there are set bonuses now, and with the right armour you can get the +6 again. Ooh and i forgot the amazing Alternate fire for the SoL.
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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2009, 19:32 »

I don't have a concrete suggest but...should we incorporate a few of the new dimensions we have such as finding half or all of the uniques to achieve a new rank. Maybe add a few medals or badge requirements?
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Aki

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 00:10 »

Angel of Berserk is quite alot harder then Medium, especially with the changes (SoL's Armour nerf, No more insta-berserk on Large Heal, ect.) It should be higher up in the unlock/achieve scale.
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Thomas

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 04:11 »

Challenge Difficulty IMO (Ones that are more gimmicky than actually hard left out)

Code: [Select]
Ao100
AoMs
AoB
AoPu
AoPa
AoI
AoLT
AoRA
AoMr

As such, here are my ranks. Spoiled for huge.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Experience Ranks, spoiled for huge.

Each rank takes exactly double the time as the previous, according to my kill list. I pefer melee games more than the average joe, so I've toned down the melee stats.
The starting rank, kill 50 former humans, is a 200th of how much I play (9948 formers and counting). As such, the 8th rank is where someone who's been playing as long as I have (a lot.) will be.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 04:42 »

Wall of text! Yeah, please keep it comming, reading this motivates me to work on DoomRL now :D

However, another request, please rank the challenges with EASY, MEDIUM, HARD, VERY HARD, BLADE. To easify things here's the list of challenges:
Code: [Select]
AoD
AoMr
AoH
AoRA
AoMC
Ao100
AoPw
AoD&D
AoLT
AoB
AoP
AoI
AoMs
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Melon

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 05:01 »

I still think that the "Monster" levels should be based on how many enemies you kill in one run/one level, not the overall (it really just goes down to running the game multiple times, after some time, you will kill the right amount of monsters, although you could play very badly).

Archvile-hatchling:
Kill 5 archvilles in one run

Archvile:
Kill 3 archvilles on one level

Archvile lord"
Kill 3 archvilles on one level using your fists

And so on...
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Captain Trek

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 05:07 »

This is how the challenges stand for me:

AoDark: Easy (virtually the same as normal game really)

AoMark: Easy-Medium (somewhat RNG dependant and virtually hopeless against the hordes of demons encountered on UV, but easy enough on lower levels)

AoBer: Hard (spare me...)

AoLT: Medium (plenty doable with an appropriate build)

AoI: Medium (I actually found the health situation to be not nearly as crippling as it could have been)

AoP: Medium (a few extra medpacks in your inventory and you should be OK)

AoD&D: Easy (the steady drip of iornman and eagle eye makes this pretty easy)

AoRA: Very hard (I can't stand being rushed)

AoPac: Bull (a special difficulty I invented to describe a challenge mode almost totally dependant on the RNG)

AoMas: Blade (I found it impossible)

That leaves AoH and Ao100, which I haven't played enough to comment on...
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Dervis

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 06:21 »

This is how the challenges stand for me:

AoMark: Easy (the new mod packs fixed most of the RNG issues so the only difficulty is that you can't have a RL / BFG)
AoLT: Easy (just don't use a chaingun build because of the ammo issues)
AoD&D: Easy (the huge health pool makes you very hard to kill)
AoP: Medium / Hard-Very hard on N!
AoH: Medium-Hard (If you try to go for 100% it's possibly a Blade rank)
AoPac: Hard (As soon as you get a couple of points on Hellrunner the difficulty drops a lot)
AoI: Hard
Ao100: Hard-Very Hard (the difficulty doesn't ramp well with difficulty levels past level 25, a lot of people have big trouble completing this in HNTR but N! isn't much harder)
AoMas: Very Hard (You need Cat's Eye or Intuition to beat this)
AoPow: Very Hard-Blade (you just run out of ammo)
AoBer: Blade (needs fixing imo)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 06:23 by Dervis »
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Gargulec

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2009, 06:36 »

AoPow? What the...?
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: HOT TOPIC : New Rank requirements!
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 07:49 »

Dervis, what's the current biggest problem with AoBer? Levels up to Chained court?
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