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Author Topic: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)  (Read 4695 times)

Zi

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Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« on: August 03, 2009, 23:33 »

Let's discuss how useful you find the various Uniques and artifacts.  Here's my take:

Top Tier:
Blaster - never need to worry about ammo (go ahead and store another 5 medpacks!), fires frighteningly fast - so good that if you find one, it's worth changing to a pistol build if you aren't doing one already  (I'm also rather sentimentally attached to it since it helped me get some of my milestone wins.  If I were to be objective, this would probably be 3rd best, and the spear in its current form best.)

Necroarmor - an immense amount of protection which repairs itself twice as quickly as Malek's.  Speed boost, rather than penalty like most armors.  If you play carefully, you'll never lose this armor.  It's also useful no matter what build you do.  (Note that higher protection will result in less damage to the armor as well.)

Longinus Spear - +6 armor on top of everything else?  You're pretty frick'n invincible (rumor has it this is getting nerfed)

Very Nice:
Phaseshift boots - movement speed is so essential when facing monster hordes.  This is top tier if you don't manage to find any boot mobility mods (Actually I'm seeing fewer boot mobility mods nowadays, I must have been lucky in my earlier games)

Missile launcher - having a magazine of 4 is much more useful that it looks to most people.  Rather than having to spend precious seconds to reload between every shot, you can fire four in a row (each more quickly than a regular launcher's single shot), then take cover and load everything back up.  This makes a huge different in confrontations with crowds or strong enemies.  The added accuracy means that using it on individual targets is much more of a sure thing than with other rocket launchers.  Also useful for all builds

Trigun - pretty fast firing, and hits HARD - take reloader instead of son of a bitch (on top of son of a gun)

Malek's armor - sort of like Necroarmor, but weaker.  And it gets destroyed much more easily, it's possible that you'll lose it in a sticky situation.  Works with all builds

Angelic armor - strong, with no drawbacks.  Doesn't self-repair, though

Nice and useful:
Beretta - if you have a pistol build, I think tri-shot works the best if you have a decent amount of ammo in your backpack

Pancor Jackhammer - A double shotgun's damage, but with a combat shotgun's characteristics, and can shoot three times before reloading!  Be careful not to run out of ammo though!  It works as a secondary weapon even for non-shotgun builds.  (Triggerhappy does NOT function with it - I found out the hard way.)

Phaseshift Armor - Speed boosts are key.  If you're able to keep your armor intact, this is probably "Very Nice" (and with all the AoMs I've been playing, I've gotten a lot better at not taking damage, and thus preserving my armor as well)

Anti-freak Jackal - with both son of a gun/bitch, you can dig really precise holes through walls.  No slouch at dealing damage either, it hits rather hard and is great against clumps.  But often it'll destroy some of the stuff you wanted to pick up.

Assault shotgun - a more powerful combat shotgun that reloads a lot more quickly

Gothic boots - an excellent substitute for envirosuits, saving all that inventory space, useful for all builds

Nuclear BFG - most of the time when I use the BFG I shoot 3 shots in a row (to clear out vile et al clumps), so this doesn't act as a substitute for those situations.  But having a single BFG shot available without cost every so often is still useful

Nuclear plasma - weaker shots, but free.  Free means a lot when it comes to power cells

Minigun - unlike others, I think it does do well with a chaingun build - but you can't use it all the time, or you'll run out of ammo (and sooner than you expect)

Baron, Gothic Armor - can be useful in situations, but the speed penalty hinders running away when it matters

Butcher's Cleaver - If you found it with a melee build (pre-spear), more power to you

Meh:
Hell staff - random teleports when playing Nightmare are incredibly dangerous.  I don't even bother to pick up vanilla phase devices anymore.  On easier difficulties, this is probably "Very Nice"

Railgun - it's not good for dueling monsters in range (its damage per second is subpar), and it's not efficient for hitting things out of range or in crowds (the BFG is far better) - I only pick it up to get it noted in the mortem, and for the cells.  Dervis's demo shows that he doesn't take it either, so I'm not alone in this respect.

BFG 10k - The first shot knocks back the target you were aiming at and often the next 4 miss.  It's worse than a BFG9000

Revenant's Launcher - I'd rather have a vanilla rocket launcher, usually I can find a reload mod to attach to it.  I suppose if your build had zero eagle eye this might come in handy when using the rocket launcher to engage individual targets at range.  I suppose you could also use it in rare situations where you're able to aim the rocket to hit what you want while not destroying desired items on certain tiles.

???:
Dragonslayer - (I figure it's excellent, but I've never actually tried it out.  Maybe it has hidden effects that make it amazing or totally awful.  It doesn't have an armor bonus like the spear, though, so I'd take the +armor spear over it any day if it doesn't have any hidden effects.)

« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 23:36 by Zi »
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 04:11 »

Heh, I'd bet the Dragonslayer is actually the most powerful unique in the game, try wielding it :>

I'd like to hear others opinions on this topic too -- it'd help balance the uniques out a little :).
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 04:31 »

My personal unique favourites:
1. Gothic Armour- It slows you down. OK. But it is so incredibly resistant, that with some defensive traits, TaN (3), for example, it makes you nearly unsellable. (Arachs taking 5-6 hp, Revenants 10 at maximum).
2.Blaster- Seriously overpowered. On pistol build, it change into final tool of apocalypse. Anyway, just look-
rocket launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon
 fires! You are hit!
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon
 reloads his rocket launcher.
See? SIX SHOTS after Cybbie have reloaded, next five before he did it again.

3. Gothic Boots- not being afraid of lava is very nice. And, with HR, they don't slow you down (so much)

About rest of them, I do not have an opinion, sadly.
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Dervis

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 05:00 »

Overpowered:
- Blaster
Extremely powerful yet not gamebreaking:
- GCB
- NPR
- Missile Launcher
- Necroarmor
- Malek's Armor
- Assault Shotgun
- Trigun
- SoL
Weak:
BFG 10k: Like Zi said you can never connect hits with this. If you can fix this it will earn its name.
Revenant's Launcher: Although the autohit is nice, it's worse than RL for any Eagle Eye build.
Railgun: This weapon is very fun yet just doesn't dish out enough damage. Increase it to 7d7 or 8d8 and it should be fine.

Hell staff - random teleports when playing Nightmare are incredibly dangerous.  I don't even bother to pick up vanilla phase devices anymore.  On easier difficulties, this is probably "Very Nice".

There are situations where a med pack won't save while a phase device will. I try to carry one phase device at all times, although i admit homing phase devices are so much better. This is a decent item.

SoL and Necroarmour lost their awesomeness in the beta, yet they're still very good.
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 07:18 »

Blaster damage will be reduced to 2d4, Railgun upped to 8d8, BFG10K will be 6d6 with accuracy 4 (was 2). Revenant's Launcher upped to 7d6. How does that sound?
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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 07:20 »

Concerning the blaster- I would rather slow down it's ammo regen, (to the level on NPR, perhaps?) than nerf it's damage.
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Dervis

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2009, 09:16 »

Blaster damage will be reduced to 2d4, Railgun upped to 8d8, BFG10K will be 6d6 with accuracy 4 (was 2). Revenant's Launcher upped to 7d6. How does that sound?
Blaster - Reducing the damage would be quite effective at reducing it's power however it would also make it even more boring. Playing with Blaster nowadays means you'll have to press 'f' 10+ times for every decent hp monster. Sometimes you just stand still banging the 'f' key for 15+ seconds until everything is dead.

In my opinion, one of the following would be better:
a) make it use 2 ammo per shot and reduce it's clip size to 10. (would go empty after 9 shots, would allow you to fire every other turn after going empty)
b) set damage at 4d4 and speed at 1,0. This would make it scale worse with SoaG and SoaB than it does now. This would make it a high-powered pistol with unlimited ammunition rather than a Doom device.
c) get rid of the regeneration and make it use power cells.

BFG 10k
We cannot connect hits mostly because the first hit causes knockback to the target and so for every shot after it there's nothing there.
a) I was trying to think how to make this interesting and couldn't get anywhere, so did a bit of out of box thinking. Make it a (5d5)x3 chain-fire weapon with Triggerhappy and everything. Those chainfire sprays would be something to behold.

Railgun and Revenant's changes look fine. I'm also a bit worried that the new 8d4 Assault Shotgun might be a bit overpowered, cleared HMP The Wall with it with barely any trouble.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 09:33 by Dervis »
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Zi

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2009, 12:32 »

Sigh - I knew there was a risk my (sentimentally favorite) Blaster would be nerfed as a result of this topic.  I hope it doesn't get nerfed too much - it's such a joy to find right now.  I think the signature feature of the weapon is that you can fire without stopping, so changing or crippling its self-charging nature would simply change it into something else.  However, the reason it's overpowered is not that it doesn't require ammo, but that it fires twice as fast as everything else.  From my perspective, if the fire time was increased to 0.8s, even if everything else was kept the same, it'd actually be a TREMENDOUS nerf (perhaps 0.7s, if we still want it to remain a superior weapon).  Dervis's option b is a good idea too - turn it into a pistol with normal firing time but superior damage, and keep the ammo regeneration.  (4d4 with 1s fire time is good.)  It'd also save a bunch of pressing f, like he said.  Actually, the more I consider it, the more I like this idea.

Ammo regeneration is strange now - from what I can tell, a weapon regenerates 1 ammo for each player action that takes at least x seconds (where x ~= 0.2s?) and nothing at all if the action takes < x seconds.  So you can actually regenerate ammo more quickly if you can somehow perform actions that take very little time, but at least x (combat shotgun shell pump?).  If the ammo regeneration system is changed, then perhaps fiddling with the clip size or ammo used per shot might be a solution, but I still think the defining characteristic of the Blaster is that it never needed ammo OR waiting for ammo to recharge, and it was superior to an ordinary pistol.

BFG10k - if you want to keep the weapon with pretty much the same design as it has now, my fix is to have the first four shots do zero knockback.  I don't think "accuracy" will be the fix, the first shot knocks the initial target often out of the path of where you aimed, so the rest of the shots don't hit what you intended.

I'd consider an 8d8 railgun (perhaps 12d5 for the same average damage but less variability) - keep it mind it doesn't have any synergy with any traits.  I think this is a good change to try out, perhaps I'd want more out of the weapon before I use it, but changing it too dramatically in one version could unknowingly cause it to become too powerful.

The problem with the Revenant's launcher isn't that it doesn't have any damage advantage, but that it doesn't have any firing + reload SPEED advantage.  While one might consider "aim your blast at any tile" as a fair tradeoff for the ability to fire beyond sight (I actually prefer the latter by a lot), a single reload mod will make a regular rocket launcher more desirable.  Perhaps 1.0s firing time, 1.0s reload time would lead me to choose this over a vanilla rocket launcher when I find it.



How'd the Necroarmor get nerfed?  I hope it still self repairs and has at least 5 protection, otherwise red armors are suddenly a lot more attractive, relatively.



There are situations where a med pack won't save while a phase device will. I try to carry one phase device at all times, although i admit homing phase devices are so much better. This is a decent item.
I used to carry at least three at a time so that if I teleported into a poor situation with one, I could try another one to get out of it.  But even then, I would still end up in dangerous situations more often then not.  It's true, some situations a large amount of large medpacks still won't let you escape alive, and a phase device gives you a chance, but I'd rather focus on not getting into that situation in the first place.  I used to think that phase devices were essential for when you started a new floor in the middle of a super-horde of monsters, but lately running for doors while monsters are still asleep has been working pretty well.
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Dervis

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2009, 13:20 »

How'd the Necroarmor get nerfed?  I hope it still self repairs and has at least 5 protection, otherwise red armors are suddenly a lot more attractive, relatively.

The Necroarmor didn't get nerfed, the armor durability damage system has been redesigned so that armors lose durability more consistently. High protection armors suffered the most from it.
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Zi

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2009, 16:56 »

How'd the Necroarmor get nerfed?  I hope it still self repairs and has at least 5 protection, otherwise red armors are suddenly a lot more attractive, relatively.

The Necroarmor didn't get nerfed, the armor durability damage system has been redesigned so that armors lose durability more consistently. High protection armors suffered the most from it.
Ah, I see.  Sigh - everything about the new version punishes the way I play.  I already regularly get all my armor disintegrated off my doomguy's body, and now it'll disintegrate even faster?  Chainguns don't fire as many bullets but still do the same amount of damage?  No cateye?  I'll definitely have to get the new version for the empty-space-firing tweak, though, really looking forward to that.  There's also 1 particular master trait I look forward to playing with, from the leaks I've observed, the others don't seem like as much of a boost as I would like given the wide swath of traits they disallow.
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Jimmy

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Re: Ranking the Uniques/Artifacts (spoilers ahoy!)
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2009, 02:49 »

Since the Blaster is a real weapon from Quake 2, I'd like to see it acting similarly to the Quake 2 version.  It was the weakest weapon in Quake 2 and I don't see why it should be a top tier damaging unique in Doomrl; with the dual-wielding in Doomrl, even if it's just fairly strong I could easily see it being very appreciated when it spawns, and even without dual-wielding, it would act as a backup for ammo conservation after finding a stronger gun.  I think it should be able to fire non-stop with no need to ever wait for it to charge.  Slowing the speed on it to .8 as per Zi's first suggestion sounds perfect to me actually.
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