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[Malek Deneith]

My idea on redefining skill rank requirements is to ditch predefined requirements. Instead of them put in sort of pseudo-achievements grouped by difficulty (such as: easy skill achievement: go to level 5 in Aob, medium: go to level 15 in Aob, ..., blade: beat AoB on N! etc.) and have the ranks require some number of achievements of difficulty X or lover (i.e. captain: get 2 easy achievements and 1 hard or something like that). The benefit of such thing would be avoiding the old "I can't beat AoB to get more goodies" problem.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

I really like this idea, please people throw in your ideas and suggestions!

[MaiZure]

My idea on redefining skill rank requirements is to ditch predefined requirements. Instead of them put in sort of pseudo-achievements grouped by difficulty (such as: easy skill achievement: go to level 5 in Aob, medium: go to level 15 in Aob, ..., blade: beat AoB on N! etc.) and have the ranks require some number of achievements of difficulty X or lover (i.e. captain: get 2 easy achievements and 1 hard or something like that). The benefit of such thing would be avoiding the old "I can't beat AoB to get more goodies" problem.

This is a very interesting idea. One thing that jumps out right away is a skilled player that starts a fresh game beats the game on UV or N! on AoWhatever...does that mean they will be able to jump right to General within a few games? Maybe a few achievements should require both game time and total kills to ensure that you have to 'grind' a bit regardless of skill.

Some achievements could incorporate the new Awards and Unique weapons tracking criteria as well.

I'll throw in more thoughts in a bit

[Generic]

Thirded, because I WILL KILL YOU FOR HAVING AoI NEEDED FOR Ao(everything good) KORNEL!

Seriously, it took me more AoI deaths to get to dlvl16 than it did AoB deaths >:(

This is a very interesting idea. One thing that jumps out right away is a skilled player that starts a fresh game beats the game on UV or N! on AoWhatever...does that mean they will be able to jump right to General within a few games?

I'd say that you should give him the goodies instantly. You've already earned them; why have some guy go like 'no, suicide in ITYTD 50 more times!'?

[Vestin]

I'd say that you should give him the goodies instantly. You've already earned them; why have some guy go like 'no, suicide in ITYTD 50 more times!'?

I second that.
When it comes to achievements, skill >> persistence.

[Gargulec]

Okay, thinking of Malek idea, I came up with one as well-
Insted of achievements, make it point-based. That, every win would yield some points, something like:
ITYD: 5pts
HNTR: 10pts
HMP: 15pts
UV: 20pts
N!: 40pts

Also, additional point multipliers would be given for challenges, YAAMing, beating special levels and so on. For example:
Easy challenge x1.25pts
Medium challenge x1.5pts
Hard challenge x1.75pts
Blade x2pts
also:
Ao100: x3pts (this challenge is just too big to give standard bonuses)
YAAM x1.25 pts
Beating Mouratury x1.2 pts

So, H AoMr 100% would give (15 x1.5 x1.25) 28 pts (rounded down)
and N! Ao100 (40 x3) 120 pts

This system may seem very confusing, but it's machine job to keep track of player victories and points, not player.

[Malek Deneith]

Eh, not really sure about that -  it looks like would either disolve into "a rank once few years" for people that rarely win or turn into "spam ITYTD until desired rank" for others.

Plus it seems a bit... boring?.. compared to current requirements.

[Gargulec]

But well, rewards are awarded only once- so you can't spam ITYDs, you have to progress. Also, points can be awarded for non-win situations- reaching certain level, killing certain monster, so on.

[MaiZure]

Eh, not really sure about that -  it looks like would either disolve into "a rank once few years" for people that rarely win or turn into "spam ITYTD until desired rank" for others.

Plus it seems a bit... boring?.. compared to current requirements.

Agreed. The system Gargulec proposed sounds an awful lot like how the "score" at the end of every run is probably calculated. Going off of "Total Scores" for advancement is a bit tedious.

So Malek, I take it you were trying to keep the current system but add more flexibility for players to get to the top. How about a system where each rank depends on three objectives but you only need two of them to advance. When you do advance, the one you skipped remains on the list but the other two are more difficult versions of the last. For instance rank two:

reach level 10
finish a challenge
kill 1000 enemies

You do the first and last objective and level up but now you see:

win the game
finish a challenge
kill 5000 enemies

Two of three objectives could allow players to advance but they would eventually have to face the challenge they tend to skip. It could go something like this

reach level 10 -> win the game -> win on HMP -> win on UV -> reach level 20 on N! -> beat N!
finish 2 challenges -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6
kill 1000 -> 5000 -> 25000 -> 50000 -> right....

I know the "kill monsters" threshhold is weak, but it illustrates the idea well.

[ntc]

MaiZure's method sounds perfect. Its sounds flexible, fun, and its got my vote.

[Passionario]

MaiZure's method sounds perfect. Its sounds flexible, fun, and its got my vote.

Seconded.

[Captain Trek]

MaiZure's method sounds perfect. Its sounds flexible, fun, and its got my vote.

Seconded.

Thirded...

[Zi]

I like the general idea of "here's x tasks to do, you only need to do SOME of them to get to the next rank", but I prefer Malek's version rather than a chain like Maizure's, as the latter is still will eventually force you to do some things you don't like, unless the requirements were really relaxed.

Once I get my N! AoB win (if ever?) I'll probably never play it again unless it was radically changed.  It's not that enjoyable in its current form.  So I'd support any system that doesn't require me to play aspects which I don't enjoy.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Zi, is the ability to mod melee weapons enough a change? :P

[Gargulec]

Zi, you are wrong- AoB is fully enjoyable, fully playable, fully berserkerish, if you know how. At least on M. But I would not mind brute giving you additional melee accuracy bonus, like SoG gives you firing time bonus.