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[Vestin]

1* Do you know what's the first thing that comes up when you search YouTube for 'roguelike' ?

That's right.

It:
* is the ONLY DOOM:RL video we have on YT (AFAIK)
* is short (4:15, not even half of the 10min limit)
* is poorly edited (shows a lot of unnecessary things)
* contains poor gameplay (the guy dies ON LEVEL 2 !)
* shows v.0.9.8.7

It has still managed to get 5,877 views regardless. This number may seem small and insignificant but it's large enough to indicate a huge potential for a similar video without the aforementioned flaws.
While Kornel already suggested this, it would be nice to finally get it done.
Here's what we need:
* one person modern hardware, DOOM:RL skills and a screen recorder of choice
* one person (may be the same as above) with basic video-editing skills
I know we might use the footage we already have but it would be nice to show as up-to-date version as possible.
Also - it would be nice to have footage made with this kind of exposure in mind.

2* We already know that some people enjoy watching others play games, right ? Sure - some may prefer to either play themselves or use hotseat/splitscreen or LAN multiplayer... but most people don't mind watching how others do it, from time to time. Think of it as pr0n (a broad analogy) - even if you have a very fruitful sex life you might still enjoy watching how others (both n00bs and/or pros) do it.
Also - being able to interact and possible having some sort of impact adds to the excitement (think: webcams and cybersex).

So - how can we use this type of curiosity for our own agenda ? Aside from the obvious "dude - what's that ?" over-the-shoulder types of interactions we have... live streams !
I even managed to find a single roguelike stream. I don't know how many Crawl Stone Soup fan are out there but 500 views this month sound impressive for such a thing.

It's pretty easy to guess what my point is. We have quite a few DOOM:RL fans from different time zones and as such - we could create single, dedicated stream that would be on air (almost) round the clock ;).

(The only problem so far seems to be that Procaster works only for DirectX games and full desktop... but we can easily fix that by choosing the desktop broadcast and running DOOM:RL with console font set to something like Lucida Console, 36)

3* The DOOM:RL site should get somewhat updated with new screenshots, embedded videos from #1 and stream from #2.

4* Once we get done with all of the above, we will finally have something to show people. This is the point when we can spread the world by forum sigs, tweets... Whatever.

Any other suggestions ?

[MaiZure]

Good stuff - I've discussed a marketing plan with Kornel and the first deliverable is in a few days. There is going to be a big push in the future for bringing in a real fan base, especially since the graphics version is within reach.

We're going to aim for a broad, comprehensive approach to getting the word out (as much as zero budget can bring, anyway) The YouTube items you mentioned are a clear component of the message. Good eye and thanks for the input. You'll be seeing more within a month or two, for sure!

[Thomas]

I'm highly surprised that doomRL is the first hit, considering our ludicrously low fanbase and the fact that there's been countless lets plays of bigger and "better" roguelikes.

Like nethack, for example.

I can scrounge up some footage of UV gameplay and someone can edit it together. My video editing skills stretch as far as "Can cut and paste videos in Windows Movie Maker".

[MaiZure]

Sounds like a good start Thomas

Anyone else with ideas, skills, industry contacts, or motivation, feel free to chime in here and you're guaranteed a call back :P

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

OMG, I'd be greatful :D

[Floyd]

Sounds like a good start Thomas

Anyone else with ideas, skills, industry contacts, or motivation, feel free to chime in here and you're guaranteed a call back :P

Doom RL short and humorous commercial. I'll have it done in near future and then decide if it's decent quality to be shown around.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Floyd, that would be great!

[ParaSait]

Such as, he's owning hundreds of Hell Barons, Spidies, ArchViles, and at the end he gets killed by a former human melee attack? :p

[Thomas]

Bah, I couldn't get the damn thing to record video. It recorded my sound okay though, weirdly enough.

[Floyd]

Such as, he's owning hundreds of Hell Barons, Spidies, ArchViles, and at the end he gets killed by a former human melee attack? :p

I was thinking along these lines:

Guy who is bored to death starts to play some Doom RL and gets hooked.
Then some awesome gameplay-records (ofc we need jokes like: "Stunning new-age graphics that melt your eyes")
Then the guy again and hes like: "Woah this is t3h awesomest, but I can't play it all the time I've got to play some-"
*Doom imp aggro sound*
Imp on the door -> fireball to the screen as in taking a hit in original Doom -> Doomguys death-sound -> blood down the screen and a slogan:
Doom RL
Play it or go to Hell.

[Vestin]

I was thinking along these lines:

As much as I don't want to be a naysayer, some of these just don't seem right.

Guy who is bored to death starts to play some Doom RL and gets hooked.

The idea sounds OK, but then again - there's something depressing about ads which start off with sad/sick/bored people. One might even say that if the first impression is so important, then the thing people will remember the best after watching something like that is the mentioned negative state. No really something you wish to achieve, right ?
If that doesn't convince you - how many commercials have you seem where people are apathetic or crying ? That's right - most of them feature upbeat and energetic characters. That's because they don't want to use the "without x the world is worse" approach instead of "x makes our good world better".

Unless you consider "join us or burn in Hell" as a religious type of advertisement ;)...

Then some awesome gameplay-records (ofc we need jokes like: "Stunning new-age graphics that melt your eyes")

That's like an Apple commercial saying "Our products are dirt cheap ^^' !". Not only doesn't it help - it's counterproductive as hell.

Then the guy again and hes like: "Woah this is t3h awesomest, but I can't play it all the time I've got to play some-"

Let me put it this way: unless you advertise a novel, insurance or pension fund - you don't want to use more than 5 words in a sentence (or even total).
The reason ? It's hard to stay madly enthusiastic and at the same time provide elaborate explanations. This just doesn't look honest.

*Doom imp aggro sound*
Imp on the door -> fireball to the screen as in taking a hit in original Doom -> Doomguys death-sound -> blood down the screen

Besides it being cheesy - I SERIOUSLY doubt we could do it in a professional way... And otherwise - it would look like special effects in AVGN videos - lame and out of place.

and a slogan:
Doom RL
Play it or go to Hell.

If you play it, in a way, you're also going to hell. Not much of a choice, is there ?

Also - while not even trying hard to be serious, that slogan is a blatant threat. I know there are probably plenty of people out there with slave mentality but I don't respond well to coercion attempts. Not to mention that it sound downright disrespectful to the viewer.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Vestin -- so what about this -- "Kornel Kisielewicz's about to make you his bitch" :P

[Melon]

Vestin -- so what about this -- "Kornel Kisielewicz's about to make you his bitch" :P

Unfortunatelly, this was probably the worst phrase ever used. Certainly, it didn't help Daikatana.

[ParaSait]

What about we make it an Angry German Kid remix? AGK vs. DoomRL :D

[metroidRL]

What about we make it an Angry German Kid remix? AGK vs. DoomRL :D

LOL

well there is too many remix of this... why not?

[Thomas]

Vestin -- so what about this -- "Kornel Kisielewicz's about to make you his bitch" :P

If I didn't already play DoomRL, this would make me drop whatever I was doing and immediately download it.

It's so true, too!

[Plague Doctor]

I think that the biggest problem with doing any kind of trailer for a game like this is that there aren't a lot of interesting things to show. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but if you have never played any kind of roguelike game you will just look at it and think: What the hell did I just watch?

Another problem is actually trying to use game footage. The game isn't designed to be played like a fast paced action game, nor does it look like one. There aren't any graphics to draw attention away from the gameplay, which is a good thing for the guy playing it, because he can use his imagination to create a whole world in his mind. However, the person watching it will just get confused because the only thing he sees is a B that's throwing things at a @ in a labyrinth filled with . and #.

I think that the best way to actually get any publicity is to post some sessions on youtube or whatever. Post a link to this site in the comment box (Duh =P), try to explain what a roguelike is (Just the basics), so that people who have never played it before know what they are staring at and try to keep it short, use cuts between action sequences so people don't have to watch the boring bits (Or, if you want to post a complete game session, don't) but you already figured that out =P

[Vestin]

I think that the biggest problem with doing any kind of trailer for a game like this is that there aren't a lot of interesting things to show. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but if you have never played any kind of roguelike game you will just look at it and think: What the hell did I just watch?

A little known fact - curiosity didn't really kill the cat; it simple drove it to do lots of interesting and new things ;).

Another problem is actually trying to use game footage. The game isn't designed to be played like a fast paced action game, nor does it look like one.

That's why we're not going to use flashing lights and heavy, fast beat music. That's NOT the only way to promote a game, you know.

There aren't any graphics to draw attention away from the gameplay, which is a good thing for the guy playing it, because he can use his imagination to create a whole world in his mind. However, the person watching it will just get confused because the only thing he sees is a B that's throwing things at a @ in a labyrinth filled with . and #.

We don't need people who would be too stupid to get the idea. We're not promoting RLs in general - we're simply trying to lure people who either know RLs and/or are curious and bright.

I think that the best way to actually get any publicity is to post some sessions on youtube or whatever.

OMG - read what I said. We've figured this out already. THEY said I was supposed to wait :[.

Post a link to this site in the comment box (Duh =P), try to explain what a roguelike is (Just the basics)

Nah - give a link to a site that explains it in detail. And a link to our site and forum.

use cuts between action sequences so people don't have to watch the boring bits (Or, if you want to post a complete game session, don't) but you already figured that out =P

A roguelike playthrough CAN look awesome if you know what you're doing :>.
What's depressing is that is was published slightly earlier than our only DOOM:RL video... and has only a bit more views.

[Madtrixr]

I'm doing the best I can, I'm spreading it with word of mouth.

[Plague Doctor]

I know you already said it, that's why I said "you already figured that out" at the very end ;)

And your right, it can look really amazing if you know what you're doing.
I also didn't suggest any heavy music, you could get away with just using drones or more ambient stuff, think Lustmord or maybe Boris. Or, if you have the equipment, use some samples and create your own sound ;)

But you're right, I bitched and bitched without actually giving any kind of solution. So, here's one: If you need someone to edit some kind of movie together, some sessions or whatever, I might be able to help, both at home with premiere or at school with Avid or final cut.

[Journey]

Promoting to people who already play roguelikes is easiest - use the newsgroup, and message the roguetemple site operator.  However this group of people is pretty small.  It may be the case that it's worth trying to promote DoomRL to people who don't play roguelikes, especially once the graphical version is out.  Difficult, but a far larger pool of potential players.

One possible video type to create is to interspirse DoomRL footage with parallel footage from Doom.  Show Doomguy shooting a bunch of guys in Doom, then cut to Doomguy shooting a bunch of the same guys in a similar situation in DoomRL.

[Madtrixr]

I heard about this when I listened to the Doom episode of Retronauts.

[Thomas]

Just to keep this thread going, I'm pretty sure DoomRL already has much more word-of-mouth than many other roguelikes. In my experience, people bring up DoomRL within the first couple of pages of talking about roguelikes on other sites, even sites that are just generally about games.

I agree that the bigger problem is people not downloading it after hearing about it. Partially because its appeal as a roguelike is lost on many people, of course.

I'd either increase the publicity DoomRL gets on roguelike-dedicated sites (To be honest, I don't see it mentioned on roguelike sites nearly as much as game sites, ironically) or somehow make it more appealing to the average nerdy gamer like myself.

[Aki]

Strangely enough, DooMRL's mentioned less on Rougetemple or whatever it is then BerserkRL or AliensRL.

[Vestin]

This gives me another idea - we could make a tutorial video, explaining everything a person needs to know about DOOM:RL and RLs in general to start blasting some zombies. All we need is a good script and a person with sexy voice.

Of course - the response will be MUCH better if we manage to get a female voiceover of it xP...

But you're right, I bitched and bitched without actually giving any kind of solution. So, here's one: If you need someone to edit some kind of movie together, some sessions or whatever, I might be able to help, both at home with premiere or at school with Avid or final cut.

Excellent. Now all we need is to figure out how we want our trailer to look (and sound) and record some games...