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[Thomas]

In the beta, uniques have undergone a few changes. For starters, there's a lot more of them. I think we managed to double the amount, but don't quote me on that. Also, the uniques that aren't too outlandish (eg. Minigun counts, trigun and nuclear BFG probably wouldn't) can now be modded.

I suggest adding a new class of weapon (I like "Exotic Weapons") that are slightly better than common weapons, on par with advanced weapons. They start with more specialised stats than their common counterparts and can only be modded once no matter how much whizkid you have, much like the "semi-uniques" of 0.9.9 RC1.

Many uniques of 0.9.9 RC1 could be turned in to exotic weapons, like the minigun and plasma shotgun. Both are barely better than their common counterparts, they're just more specialised. Plasma shotgun is the shotgun for people that aren't doing a shotgun run, minigun is the chaingun for people that either have too much ammo or too much EE.

Exotic weapons are weirdly (You could even say exotically) coloured as to stand out, but do not make a level message. They're more common than uniques and advanced weapons, you'll see about 6-8 per run (You might get 2 of the same exotic weapon, but it's highly unlikely). Unlike uniques, they have a minimum level, so you wont get exotic plasma weaponry until after level 10.


This is to both cut down on the amount of uniques (and possibly make room for EVEN MORE) and give players a bit more variety in their runs. I don't think uniques are doing the job as effectively as they could right now, because you only get 1-2 and it's either "Hey this is exactly the one I wanted" or "Oh, I'll pick that up to tally it then immediately drop it". Exotic weapons are good enough where they'll make you consider changing your trait build a little bit, or if they're totally useless to you, maybe one of the next 4 will be better.

[Sachiko]

Oh, wow! Double amount of uniques? That's sick! (In a good way) I'll surely love playing the new DoomRL.

As per the exotic weapons, I think the idea is nice enough. It would allow you to give a bit more life to those uniques that are just a bit more 'special' than their more regular counterparts without making them too overpowered. I second that.

[Aki]

Naw, I don't like it.

This is basically Advanced Weapons v2, and we all know how Advanced weapons turned out >_>"

It's either too Gamebreaking to be implimented or too useless to make a difference.

[Thomas]

Naw, I don't like it.

This is basically Advanced Weapons v2, and we all know how Advanced weapons turned out >_>"

It's either too Gamebreaking to be implimented or too useless to make a difference.

I think you mean "Upgraded Weapons", those were the Extended/Rapid/Fastload weapons that barely did anything.

Also exotic weapons are already implemented in the game, save the fact that I want them to be more common and slightly less powerful. The semi-uniques certainly aren't gamebreaking (You have a case for the more powerful uniques though, Necroarmour and Dragonslayer both win games) and are quite different from their common counterparts.

[Aki]

Me and Thomas had a little chat on IRC and agreed on the following things:

-With another class of weapons (We already have Advanced, Normal and Unique), Exotic would make 4. That's simply too many different weapon CLASSES for DoomRL. Advanced weapons get chucked out, as they're almost rarer then uniques and STILL need mods to make them useful. 2x the RNG for less Dakka.

-To keep Wizkid useful, it's upped to 3 Levels and each level grants more modslots on normal weapons (WK 1 gives 1 extra slot, WK 2 gives 2 extra slots on top of that, WK 3 gives 2/3 extra slots on top of THAT). Granted, you still need luck from the RNG to find the right mods. In addition, some weapons could have less mod slots (BFG, anyone?)

-Unique weapons get done over. They become less of the "HEY IF I GET THE RIGHT ONE THEN I WIN OTHERWISE I JUST GET IT NOTED IN MORTEM" and more of the "Hey, now THAT's useful. Not Gamebreaking, but useful.". This is achieved by:

--Making unique weapons more balanced around the board and remove the powerhouses. Staples such as the BFG10K and Dragonslayer can stay, but tone up/down things such as the Necroarmor, Nuclear BFG, ect. They're still better then your average weapon, but not totally gamebreaking.
--Making uniques more "different". Stuff such as the NPR/GCB is good. It's not like the Missile Launcher/Minigun, which is just your "Average weapon with 9001% more Dakka". They should be Unique, different from the norm. This leads to the removal of such things as the Minigun/Missile Launcher from the Unique list.
--Make uniques more versatile. For instance, take your GCB. It's got 3 fire modes, so it can be used on a Chaingun run OR a pistol run. It's one of the most versatile uniques out there. The Jackhammer should be affected by TH, so it can be used on a Chaingun run OR a Shotgun run. Stuff like that. (However, so the Jackhammer doesn't become the new iWin button, it gets fixed, as the first point)

Thomas says that Exotic weapons fill in the gap between these new uniques and standard weapons. I don't know much more, so i'll leave it up to him to explain.

[Melon]

Me and Thomas had a little chat on IRC and agreed on the following things:

-With another class of weapons (We already have Advanced, Normal and Unique), Exotic would make 4. That's simply too many different weapon CLASSES for DoomRL. Advanced weapons get chucked out, as they're almost rarer then uniques and STILL need mods to make them useful. 2x the RNG for less Dakka.

-To keep Wizkid useful, it's upped to 3 Levels and each level grants more modslots on normal weapons (WK 1 gives 1 extra slot, WK 2 gives 2 extra slots on top of that, WK 3 gives 2/3 extra slots on top of THAT). Granted, you still need luck from the RNG to find the right mods. In addition, some weapons could have less mod slots (BFG, anyone?)

-Unique weapons get done over. They become less of the "HEY IF I GET THE RIGHT ONE THEN I WIN OTHERWISE I JUST GET IT NOTED IN MORTEM" and more of the "Hey, now THAT's useful. Not Gamebreaking, but useful.". This is achieved by:

--Making unique weapons more balanced around the board and remove the powerhouses. Staples such as the BFG10K and Dragonslayer can stay, but tone up/down things such as the Necroarmor, Nuclear BFG, ect. They're still better then your average weapon, but not totally gamebreaking.
--Making uniques more "different". Stuff such as the NPR/GCB is good. It's not like the Missile Launcher/Minigun, which is just your "Average weapon with 9001% more Dakka". They should be Unique, different from the norm. This leads to the removal of such things as the Minigun/Missile Launcher from the Unique list.
--Make uniques more versatile. For instance, take your GCB. It's got 3 fire modes, so it can be used on a Chaingun run OR a pistol run. It's one of the most versatile uniques out there. The Jackhammer should be affected by TH, so it can be used on a Chaingun run OR a Shotgun run. Stuff like that. (However, so the Jackhammer doesn't become the new iWin button, it gets fixed, as the first point)

Thomas says that Exotic weapons fill in the gap between these new uniques and standard weapons. I don't know much more, so i'll leave it up to him to explain.

Normal weapons
Fastload/Rapidfire/.../ weapons (one mod inside)
Advanced weapons
Exotic (three mods inside)
Uniques

Normal weapons get dropped by normal enemies, can be found on floor
Fastload/Rapidfire weapons, same as above, but rare
Advanced weapons can be found on floor
Exotic weapons - used by mini-bosses (if they will be implemented)
Unique - in special places, ocasionally on floor, but rarely, rarely

Let's say that every 2-3 levels some miniboss appers. He can hold a random piece of equipment (exotic weapons, armour, boots). That would be fair. This certainly would be useful in Ao100 runs...

[Aki]

That's in 9.8.10 - Traited weapons are DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

Anyway, time to get back to sleep...

[Journey]

Well I do think some of the Unique weapons are pretty weak, and I wouldn't mind seeing slightly better weapons more often (while keeping the appearance of the game changers at the same rate), so I could be in favor of a system similar to "Exotic Weapons".

However, if the regularly of advanced weapons were increased, something like this isn't needed, since with the streamlined mod system, it's easier for the player to put together a slightly better weapon.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Bump of the topic. Not only has this idea been accepted, but also implemented. Moar suggestions welcome!