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[Tavana]

Now. This is something I really think needs to happen. Spectres. Now don't stop reading. Seriously. It's Doom. It's pretty much the last thing that needs to be put in to make this Doom. I want to make a DoomRL Mod of the Doom Comic, and I want to make a DoomRL Mod of...well, Doom. As close to the levels as can be done. This requires spectres.

I understand that if we get together and mod, we can put spectres in ourselves, once DoomRL becomes moddable. But I'd like to get it put in anyhow. Otherwise it will take more effort. =P

Here's my two cents:
 - Only introduce spectres on levels with barrels.
 - Make them spawn as "." 's. A different colour. Off-black or something.
 - Shooting them/explosions makes them visible for at least ten turns, or forever. They would be dark red "c" 's
 - exactly same stats as demons except for: they're slightly faster, but less health.

Worst comes to worst, when you unlock DoomRL for modding, we'll get them in and show you "the light".

[Aki]

I've blown up everything in here! Blew that Spectre up real good!

[Silhar]

* Silhar likes !

[Captain Trek]

For my money, Spectres would be great as long as they aren't totally invisible. The idea of making their symbol the same character as a floor symbol only with a slight colour variation seems just about perfect. This would also mean that they could be more easily spotted if they were tramping through blood, water, acid or lava (due to the fact that their symbol would cause such a tile to change suddenly), which makes logical sense as well because the footprints and the displacement of the liquids that an invisible creature in such a situation was causing would be fairly easy to spot...

However, you'd presumably have to make it so that the "fire" key didn't automatically lock onto them...

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

There is one basic problem with Specters -- they drop the pace of the game.

HOWEVER I do have an idea how to solve that.

[raekuul]

Please, Elaborate.

[Aki]

Dammit, warn everyone when you link to TvTropes.

[Madtrixr]

What is it about that damn site that makes it so engrossing?
Is it all the hyperlinks to other tropes?

[Aki]

MORE DAKKA

[Madtrixr]

MORE DAKKA

Fridge Logic

[Aki]

MORE DAKKA

[Madtrixr]

MORE DAKKA

Too Dumb To Live

[Aki]

[ur;=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooDumbToLive] Too Dumb To Live[/url]

Sorry, are you talking about yourself?

Cause, y'know, you screwed up linking to TooDumbToLive XP

[Journey]

There is one basic problem with Specters -- they drop the pace of the game.

HOWEVER I do have an idea how to solve that.

Sometimes, especially when there's discussion about balancing numbers, I feel that you don't totally understand the game like the players do.  But then a comment like this shows (to me, at least) an understanding about the fundamentals about the game that I would hazard most others don't grasp.

Indeed I agree that if spectres were implemented, players would really have to stare at the screen closely all the time in case one was nearby, instead of looking and making decisions quickly in the game.

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

So Aki and I get our posts moved from a thread (forgot the name :P) to the Random Yap Yappity Yap Yap thread, yet this goddamned TVTropes rickrolling doesn't? The hell, man?

Also, Specters would be a great addition to DoomRL. Then all we need is a Spider Mastermind and the game has achieved "Complete Doom Status" :P

[Captain Trek]

Indeed I agree that if spectres were implemented, players would really have to stare at the screen closely all the time in case one was nearby, instead of looking and making decisions quickly in the game.

*Snaps finger* I've got it! I've got it... What if Kornel made it so that entering a level that contained a spectre was accompanied by a message? You know how when you enter a level with a water lever it gives you a "the air is really humid here" message? Well maybe a level with a spectre could be accompanied by an appropriate message.

Alternatively, a message could play when the player entred the spectre's line of sight, something along the lines of "you suddenly start to hear footsteps, but you don't see anything"...

Something like this would lessen the spectre's element of surprise, but it would allow spectres to be implimented without causing the pace of the game to drop substantially...

[Tavana]

As per my first post, here's an expansion of other ideas:

 -The closer they are to the player, the higher chance you'll go "A spectre! Invisible sonuva..." and notice him outright.

For me, in Doom, I didn't notice spectres too often in huge areas when they were far away. With the superiour graphics of DoomRL, perhaps you'd have a better chance, but we'll just say you don't. So, the chance you can see a spectre (i.e. the chance he'll turn from different coloured "." to "c") starts a 0% and raises up to 100%, ending just one step away from you. Hence you will ALWAYS see a spectre before he can attack you.

This seems fair to me. Perhaps Eagle Eye and Cateye can give bonuses to the chance to see Spectres. Though Intuition 2 makes the bonus unnecessary anyhow.

 -Make spectres nearly identical to demons, but faster, and have less health.

My idea behind this is that they run up on you pretty quick, but one or two shots kill 'em dead. Thus, if you don't notice them, it's not TOO big a deal. Perhaps ramp their damage down and up their speed even more, so they're like a mosquito. They don't hurt much, but they sure bite a lot.

Another SOLID reason that we NEED spectres in this game: AoB. We're losing out on another melee only creature!

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Sometimes, especially when there's discussion about balancing numbers, I feel that you don't totally understand the game like the players do.  But then a comment like this shows (to me, at least) an understanding about the fundamentals about the game that I would hazard most others don't grasp.

I admit, I don't have the number crunching understanding that many Elite players have, just because I don't play DoomRL much. I do however have the understanding about the driving force of the game, what was there by design. Spectres would go against that principle.

HOWEVER, I was considering special low-lite levels (immidately distinguishable), that do not happen often, but that have quite a big spectre spawn chance.

[Tavana]

HOWEVER, I was considering special low-lite levels (immidately distinguishable), that do not happen often, but that have quite a big spectre spawn chance.

Good idea for spicing up Ao100, for sure. And having the code in the game would help those who want to mod in the future. Seriously.