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[Rjak]

Maybe, you could add the option of "throwing" anyhing, such in other RL? It could be barred from Angel of Berserk and Angel of Pacifism, but could make in new "challenge" -
Angel of Buffonade
 -
Now you are not just a UAC marine with affinity to juggling , but a real juggler, right from the circus - and YOU are the only thing , that can destroy evil,lurking below(or die trying) - you can't fire weapons at all(if you try to - they explode), but you can throw absolutely anything at your foe, and you are a bit better with it, than others( shouldn't be too much)
Well, any thrown ammo should have quite short range of throwing, and possibility of detonating(depends of type)  - 10mm should have low, rockets should have higher ( and by the way, why barrels do explode and rockets - never....only cause "it was so in Doom?"...)

[X-Heiko]

Throwing would be a reasonable addition, but would it enhance the gameplay experience this much? Every time you implement a new feature into a game, you make it more complex. Complexity, if not divided into subsections, can lower the tempo of the game. DoomRL is designed as a coffeebreak RL, so any added complexity that does not increase the gameplay value goes against the whole idea.

Technically, you can emulate everything you would throw by shooting. Grenades could be handled as rockets shot at the ground. Throwing weapons are just shooting weapons. It wouldn't make a huge difference I think, if it was just being able to throw a medkit instead of dropping it. I also doubt that throwing ammunition would make it explode^^''

What I think is a good idea: Objects you can throw or place remotely, which act as barrells (which I suggested already)

[Madtrixr]

Okay this idea is stupid. Why would you want to throw anything but knives? Why not just suggest a throwing knife exotic?

...And to be honest, You would need a Grav Gun for me to enjoy throwing anything, including Barrels.

EDIT: Oh, and about Rockets. A) Rockets do explode, unless you mean like they don't explode when shot, which, meh. Countered by B) Yes. "It was like that in Doom" is a perfectly good and acceptible answer.

[Jarkko]

Grav Gun

Go post that in the "new uniques" topic. Throwing monsters and barrels around the room might be fun.

About rockets, they should explode when caught in an explosion while on the floor. Would be fun. Actually I think that has been suggested before, maybe it'll get implemented one day.

Throwing would be a reasonable addition, but would it enhance the gameplay experience this much? Every time you implement a new feature into a game, you make it more complex. Complexity, if not divided into subsections, can lower the tempo of the game. DoomRL is designed as a coffeebreak RL, so any added complexity that does not increase the gameplay value goes against the whole idea.

Yet there's a topic about crafting quickly gaining popularity... *shudders*

[Melon]

Go post that in the "new uniques" topic. Throwing monsters and barrels around the room might be fun.

About rockets, they should explode when caught in an explosion while on the floor. Would be fun. Actually I think that has been suggested before, maybe it'll get implemented one day.
Yet there's a topic about crafting quickly gaining popularity... *shudders*

Rockets when get caught in explosion... explode...
Power cells when get caught in explosion... explode like an acid barrel.
And when Nuclear BFG gets caught in the explosion...

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

And when Nuclear BFG gets caught in the explosion...

o_O
You see the message telling you theres a unique around. Walking along a corridor, you level with a door and open it. In the same round, an imp pops through an opening, and launches a fireball. It misses you, and hits the wall of the room you opened. Suddenly, the world flashes, and everything dies.
Turns out that the Unique was Nuclear... and was sitting against that wall. :D

[Melon]

o_O
You see the message telling you theres a unique around. Walking along a corridor, you level with a door and open it. In the same round, an imp pops through an opening, and launches a fireball. It misses you, and hits the wall of the room you opened. Suddenly, the world flashes, and everything dies.
Turns out that the Unique was Nuclear... and was sitting against that wall. :D

Exatacactly! Imagine a stupid death when you try to clean-up your inventory and you drop the nuclear BFG into lava :D
That would be the detonation type of explosion. If it was the deflagration type of explosion you would still manage to shout "O F***!", whilst with the detonation type you wouldn't even manage to think "O F***!".
In the mortem it would look like "5 commited stupid suicide. 2 of them didn't even manage to shout "O F***!""

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

Or you drop it temporarily to make room for some nice booties you're standing on, only to have an imp lob a fireball, catching the Nuclear weapon in the blast radius.

[Melon]

Or you drop it temporarily to make room for some nice booties you're standing on, only to have an imp lob a fireball, catching the Nuclear weapon in the blast radius.

Hm, I think now I know why rockets don't explode when caught in flames or explosion, they just disappear [;

[Journey]

I wouldn't mind if you could kick adjacent barrels a few tiles distance away from you in 1 action (10 in-game turns) - you could kick a barrel towards a bunch of enemies, shoot it next action, and win.

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

Unfortunately, a few tiles away is too close - self-cooked marine for the demons :P.

[X-Heiko]

Okay this idea is stupid. Why would you want to throw anything but knives? Why not just suggest a throwing knife exotic?

...And to be honest, You would need a Grav Gun for me to enjoy throwing anything, including Barrels.

EDIT: Oh, and about Rockets. A) Rockets do explode, unless you mean like they don't explode when shot, which, meh. Countered by B) Yes. "It was like that in Doom" is a perfectly good and acceptible answer.

I don't know if I got you right there, but you can't throw ammunition in Doom. Also, modern rockets don't explode when thrown. They even don't explode when misfired. And on top of all of that, rockets rarely "explode" as much as they "pump themselves into armor". Sure, getting down with too much realism makes no sense, but exploding thrown ammunition? Who would throw stuff if it was so dangerous to do that?

Yet there's a topic about crafting quickly gaining popularity... *shudders*

Yes, so what? That's a different thread. Am I to blame for having a suggestion? Denied ideas are more creative than no ideas, why are you being unfriendly about that?

[Madtrixr]

I don't know if I got you right there, but you can't throw ammunition in Doom. Also, modern rockets don't explode when thrown. They even don't explode when misfired. And on top of all of that, rockets rarely "explode" as much as they "pump themselves into armor". Sure, getting down with too much realism makes no sense, but exploding thrown ammunition? Who would throw stuff if it was so dangerous to do that?

I know, that's what I 'm saying. Why would you want to throw perfectly good ammunition, when you have a weapon for doing so? I'm just going to say that my post was sort of jumbled up.

[X-Heiko]

I know, that's what I 'm saying. Why would you want to throw perfectly good ammunition, when you have a weapon for doing so? I'm just going to say that my post was sort of jumbled up.

Basically, if we have the ability to throw things, it needs to make some kind of tactical difference.

[Madtrixr]

Basically, if we have the ability to throw things, it needs to make some kind of tactical difference.

Exactly.
And Tactical sense.

[Jarkko]

Yes, so what? That's a different thread. Am I to blame for having a suggestion? Denied ideas are more creative than no ideas, why are you being unfriendly about that?

Sorry about that, I guess I didn't choose my words well. What I meant to post was that I completely share your feelings on the matter and don't want overly complicated things disturbing the very nicely working balance of DoomRL.

[X-Heiko]

Exactly.
And Tactical sense.

But still, throwing could be implemented if there were any ideas for items that make sense throwing. For example an item that attracts monsters to pick it up... like a bomb disguised as a medkit (even if that is a weird item). Or an item that creates a wall or something. Or an item that repels monsters (some kind of holy thing, like a cross). But still, it all sounds quite weird to me.

[Madtrixr]

But still, throwing could be implemented if there were any ideas for items that make sense throwing. For example an item that attracts monsters to pick it up... like a bomb disguised as a medkit (even if that is a weird item). Or an item that creates a wall or something. Or an item that repels monsters (some kind of holy thing, like a cross). But still, it all sounds quite weird to me.

Right. Grenades, smoke bombs, something like that. (It DOES sound weird, and sort of undoomish)

[Melon]

GOD DAMN IT! If anyone will use the argument "It is undoomish" I will start to kill people!

What is the matter with you guys? Are barrels of napalm undoomish? Hell they are, because in the original game, they were barrels of acid. To make things worse, the original barrels just exploded and the ones in the game leave acid. It is so untrue, so no uber-kvlt, so undoomish!

There weren't 25 + 1 levels. There there 4 episodes (DOOM I) or 32-single player levels. DoomMRL is so undoomish!

Former human zombies had green haircut, so when we are looking at them from the top, we should see green hair. And in DooMRL, 'h' is white-grey. It is so undoomish.

Can anyone of you guys say: "I think this will imbalance the game..." "This will make the game more difficult" "We already have this..." "This weapon is similar to... so we shouldn't add it" "This weapon is overpowered, because..."

No, all you guys can say: "It's undoomish". Hell, then what are:
former commandos, diffirent arch-vile attack, no spider-mastermind, unique armours, unique weapons, traits, tired status, flat levels
doing in the game?

Seriously, you remind of some young metal-wannabe posers:
"Metallica is great, but only the first four album. And of course the first album is the best"
"I cannot listen to that, that's NU-metal!"
"That's not death metal, it has keyboard line!"
"I cannot listen to that, the vocalist isn't satanist"
"I cannot listen to that, the vocalist doesn't have long hair"

Enough of the ranting, time to get back to work...

[X-Heiko]

I think the argument is not really meant as "undoomish" but rather "wouldn't fit the style of doomRL". I think we all know that doomRL is not trying to be a copy of doom. It's that own interpretation of doom as a rougelike that makes it worth playing.

The problem with throwing items is as follows:

You have smoke grenades! How do you handle them? As a smoke rocket launcher that doesn't use up ammo but itself instead. There's no need to implement a distinct throwing feature because as for now, all suitable ideas for throwing are thrown weapons, which have no big difference over being shot. Do I have to press "t" to throw my knife at the opponent instead of implementing a secondary fire on the knife, or even implementing a throwing knife that fires with "f" and stabs with "F" or directional keys? It only makes sense to be able to throw items if the items as such have to be placed somewhere tactically important. That's what my attraction/repelling item idea usually was (although holy water would actually be an idea...)

Still, as long as there is no reason to place an item on the ground over a distance where the shooting algorithm wouldn't suffice to do so, adding a throwing feature only adds up to code and playing complexity IMHO.

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

Wait a minute.... by way of saying grenades are undoomish, are we then saying that Doom 3 is undoomish? And throwing stuff? I remember having a GravGun, of sorts..

[X-Heiko]

Doom 3 is undoomish if you ask me. I never played it through a second time. If you ask me, a cyberdemon that requires an ancient artifact that drains life from enemies when I kill 5 of them, spamming "Use us!" at my ears instead of ramming down thousands of HP's in an epic battle where I use up the firepower of a whole nation, is undoomish. In my little world, doom is a mixture of "damnit, you're alone here" and "damnit, there's a ton of them". Dark corridors and "sneaky" attacks are only one part of doom. The other part is huge bunches of enemies, simply spoken. Doom 3 didn't have that. Damn, enemies just vanished into ashes in a very unspectacular way that robbed you from the illusion of your enemies being filled with organs. Instead, you see they're just polygon models.

Is a battle after which NO corpses remain on the battlefield doomish? There you go. Back to topic, excuse me for my rant about Doom 3.

[Madtrixr]

GOD DAMN IT! If anyone will use the argument "It is undoomish" I will start to kill people!

What is the matter with you guys? Are barrels of napalm undoomish? Hell they are, because in the original game, they were barrels of acid. To make things worse, the original barrels just exploded and the ones in the game leave acid. It is so untrue, so no uber-kvlt, so undoomish!

There weren't 25 + 1 levels. There there 4 episodes (DOOM I) or 32-single player levels. DoomMRL is so undoomish!

Former human zombies had green haircut, so when we are looking at them from the top, we should see green hair. And in DooMRL, 'h' is white-grey. It is so undoomish.

Can anyone of you guys say: "I think this will imbalance the game..." "This will make the game more difficult" "We already have this..." "This weapon is similar to... so we shouldn't add it" "This weapon is overpowered, because..."

No, all you guys can say: "It's undoomish". Hell, then what are:
former commandos, diffirent arch-vile attack, no spider-mastermind, unique armours, unique weapons, traits, tired status, flat levels
doing in the game?

Seriously, you remind of some young metal-wannabe posers:
"Metallica is great, but only the first four album. And of course the first album is the best"
"I cannot listen to that, that's NU-metal!"
"That's not death metal, it has keyboard line!"
"I cannot listen to that, the vocalist isn't satanist"
"I cannot listen to that, the vocalist doesn't have long hair"

Enough of the ranting, time to get back to work...

Jesus Melon, calm down. I'm the only one who said Undoomish. No need to flip out.

And I SAID Undoomish, because I thought saying "It's a stupid fucking idea that Kornel will never implement in a million goddamn years." was a tad too rude.

[X-Heiko]

I think Melon wasn't just talking about this particular thread and I can totally understand his idea, but let's not fight over this here. I think we'd all rather stay on topic, nay? ^_^

[Madtrixr]

You know what? Let's not even talk about this again until DoomRL 2 (or even 3) has an Ideas thread.

[X-Heiko]

Sounds reasonable.

[Cyber Killer]

* Cyber Killer likes the idea of dropping a nuke into lava ;-) (exploding ammo packs of rockets, cells, etc - also)

This would give a kind of "volatile ammo" mutator from Unreal Tournament feel into the game ;-).

Only as an optional feature though, cause it could get sometimes annoying.

[Melon]

* Cyber Killer likes the idea of dropping a nuke into lava ;-) (exploding ammo packs of rockets, cells, etc - also)

This would give a kind of "volatile ammo" mutator from Unreal Tournament feel into the game ;-).

Only as an optional feature though, cause it could get sometimes annoying.

You enter Phobos Hell, lev 2. Khe, khe, khe, this will be a mess. Your Geiger Counter is going crazy (meaning, there is a nuke on the level).

So you shoot accidentally a barrel. Guess what happens next...

[X-Heiko]

Or worse: There's those shotgun-wielding sergeants...

[Madtrixr]

HK, BoH, REVS. ARCH-VILES.
...
Yeah, not a good idea. Maybe a good idea for a Mod, but not an implementation to the game. (Mutators are basically mods, so yeah.)

[Cyber Killer]

You enter Phobos Hell, lev 2. Khe, khe, khe, this will be a mess. Your Geiger Counter is going crazy (meaning, there is a nuke on the level).

So you shoot accidentally a barrel. Guess what happens next...

That's why I said it could be an optional feature...