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[Sylph]

Hi folks,
I put together a guide to doomrl, as an aside to the excellent '(Un)official doomRL strategy guide by Thomas
Parasiuk', and the excellent Wiki by Aki. You can view it at the following link:

http://sylph.me.uk/doomrl/doomrl%20guide%20sylph.txt

Enjoy!

[Thomas]

Passive defense:
standing there getting shot at

Active defense:
running around getting shot at

Tactical defense:
not getting shot at

Hahahaha.

Also you totally did not just diss Army of the Dead. It gives you so much more damage, it's like permanent double damage for long range shotgun fighting, or just an ass-ton of damage at short range.

[Sylph]

Hehe, I did say

It's not bad, by any stretch

I do like army of the dead, I think it's a good trait, I simply think that shotgun characters can get by just fine on finesse and juggler. Sure, their shotgun is less powerful, but it's not like they're gonna run out of ammo, and the defense from a level 12 character using corners+knockback and spending 9 character points on defense (say ironman 3, hellrunner, dodgemaster, tough as nails 2, and badass) is perhaps, maybe, a little easier to win the game with, in my experience, than a character that has a powerful long-range shotgun attack.

Glad you enjoyed some of the humour in the guide! Your guide was absolutely invaluable to me, and your praise is very, very much appreciated.

[Sylph]

I'm making a few updates to the traits section of the guide, as well as expanding it in the last sections. Just a heads-up.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Sylph, could you post it to gameFAQs once it's semi-finished? And don't forget to include a link to DoomRL INSIDE :)

[Sylph]

I was actually planning on releasing it to gamefaqs. In fact that's why the 'traits' section has a 'general traits' and a 'task-specific traits' split - to keep with the 79 characters per line rule for gamefaqs. :)

[samspot]

Great guide!  I love the builds you posted towards the end, especially shocket :)

[MaiZure]

Sylph - you have done us a great service, sir

Not only will the new players have a fighting chance, it helps out our PR as well!
Thanks!

[Passionario]

*is glad to see his passive/active/tactical defense theory becoming canon*

[Jarkko]

Great guide:

+It has probably the best explanation of shooting around corners I've seen. I liked the part where you made a hole in the wall to make a corner from which to shoot the monsters in the middle of the level.

+The arena tips.

+Fun to read.

+/- Running gives armour bonus? WTF, why, since when, and why hasn't anyone told me before? :O

-Surely power mods give more than +1 damage :) With a plasma rifle on AoMC it's more like +8. In a normal game tech mods might still be more useful, but it's still balancing a chance to kill with less shots vs shooting those shots faster.

-The range of throwing knives is 5 squares, not 4. I think the explosion radius of the barrels is 4 so this might be a significant difference on AoB :P

Other than the numbers I don't have much to complain. Reading your guide gave me the inspiration to finally tackle Ao100. My god was it boring, but thanks, now I don't have to play it again for a while.

[Thomas]

-Surely power mods give more than +1 damage :) With a plasma rifle on AoMC it's more like +8. In a normal game tech mods might still be more useful, but it's still balancing a chance to kill with less shots vs shooting those shots faster.

Lets say your gun does XdY damage per shot (It doesn't matter how many shots it fires in a single volley).

If X is lower than Y, your gun gains X - (X/(Y+1)) per shot.
If Y is lower than X, your gun gains (Y/2) per shot.

In AoMC, it just increases the damage by X or Y per shot (It chooses the lower one)

Whereas a tech mod is a flat +25% to your damage per second, unless you need to reload your weapon a lot.

As such, tech mods are much more useful in a MAc run from a purely damage-per-second perspective. Hmm...

[ChaoticJosh]

I'd like to say thanks to Sylph for the nice guide, it helped me quite a bit.

[sorear]

A tech mod is only 15% to DPS, and due to rounding, a tech modded normal weapon goes 1.0, 0.8, 0.7, 0.6.

Running mode does not increase armor.  It does, however, decrease monster to-hit (ranged and melee) by 4 and give +20% to active defense checks (monster is much more likely to shoot at your old position).

[ChaoticJosh]

So you're saying a Tech mod is more useful than a power mod the first time, but less useful each time after that?

[sorear]

Maybe.  The relative utility of tech mods and power mods is variable depending on weapon stats.

[Sylph]

Sorry about the mistake re: Running mode and armour. I'll fix that. :)

[Thomas]

A tech mod is only 15% to DPS, and due to rounding, a tech modded normal weapon goes 1.0, 0.8, 0.7, 0.6.

Running mode does not increase armor.  It does, however, decrease monster to-hit (ranged and melee) by 4 and give +20% to active defense checks (monster is much more likely to shoot at your old position).

Ah, but a weapon that fires every 0.8 seconds is doing 25% more damage than one that only attacks every second.

[ChaoticJosh]

But Thomas, I might be misunderstanding something, but wouldn't that only be 20%, and even then only if you were standing in one spot firing nonstop? And even then only from a weapon that doesn't require constant reloading?

Whereas, with a power mod, it'd be your average damage increasing with each shot, which might be more necessary if you need to finish off a monster a solitary monster in one or two turns. Wouldn't that be the case?

[Thomas]

But Thomas, I might be misunderstanding something, but wouldn't that only be 20%, and even then only if you were standing in one spot firing nonstop? And even then only from a weapon that doesn't require constant reloading?

Damage per second is based off the weapon's shots per second.

0.8 is the weapon's seconds per shot. You get the reciprocal of that for shots per second. 1/0.8 is 1.25/1.

Hence the weapon does 25% more DPS, as an unmodded weapon does only 1 shot per second.

However, power uses less bullets to do that damage, and has a better first turn (As it doesn't matter how fast the weapon is if it can kill something in one turn)
So power is better for an ammo-efficient gun, or attempting to kill things in one shot. But for pure damage per second, tech mods are better.

I said tech mods were really good for ammochain runs, which is correct. Power's two advantages over it, ammo-efficiency (especially this) and killing things in one turn, don't matter a lot in a MAc run.


EDIT: Ah, this is also implying that there is only one enemy. For speed to not matter, you must kill EVERY enemy in your sight radius in one turn. Speed is therefore also more useful in an MAc run when you're fighting more than one enemy at once.

[Frankosity]

Would technical mods still outclass damage mods in, say, a Dualgunner run? I thought I heard somewhere that your firing speed is so low from your traits that technical mods provide diminishing returns in terms of DPS vs. power mods.

[thelaptop]

Would technical mods still outclass damage mods in, say, a Dualgunner run?

In a Dualgunner build, the thing that will kill you is the reload time, not the firing time, particularly for big nasties (if I recall correctly, MGK allows instant reload if you kill something).  Your pistols don't have that much clip size (6 unmodded), which means when you are fighting something really big and nasty that don't die in six shots, you will need to reload it somewhere.  In that case, technical mods are not your biggest problem.

[mikee]

So power is better for an ammo-efficient gun, or attempting to kill things in one shot.

Or for killing things in two shots / 2 seconds as opposed to three shots / 2.4 seconds, no?

[Thomas]

Or for killing things in two shots / 2 seconds as opposed to three shots / 2.4 seconds, no?

Shots happen BEFORE the delay, so it's really two shots in 1 second and three shots in 1.6 seconds. That's why I said it's so great to kill things in one shot, because the delay happens AFTER you kill the enemy, so it doesn't matter at all.

Of course, while that hypothetical does work for numbers as high as "5 shots from a power modded gun is just as fast as 6 shots from a tech-modded gun", the power mod being the straw that breaks the camel's back is unlikely.

The only enemy I can think of that dies to the n-th volley of a plasma rifle (P1) but takes (n+1) volleys from a plasma rifle (T1) are revenants.

That's probably because the plasma rifle (with MAc) kills almost everything in one move, but I can't really remember any enemies that die in less shots to a power moddded chaingun when compared to a regular chaingun either...