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Author Topic: 'Flavoured' Levers  (Read 4141 times)

Frankosity

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'Flavoured' Levers
« on: January 03, 2010, 14:33 »

It might be interesting to have levers given an adjective based their type, chosen randomly per game, similarly to how other roguelikes like Nethack roguelikes handle potions. For example, one game might have health depots identified by a red lever, whereas in the next a red lever might signify a lava-flood lever.

The main purpose of this feature would be to allow players to identify specific effects by observation and elimination; it wouldn't necessarily decrease the risk involved in lever use, as you still won't know what a type of lever will do until after you've pulled it, but it would increase the attraction of using them, as there's the potential payoff of identifying a beneficial lever, which is normally impossible.
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sorear

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 19:42 »

I like this idea.  Levers need a lot more use.
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thelaptop

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 22:26 »

So according to the wiki, we have 10 different lever effects, of which we have up to five useful ones.  Even without flavours, we have 50% chance of getting a beneficial effect.  What flavouring does is that it increases this percentage drastically as time goes by because we learn quickly which levers are good and which are bad because of consistent colouring.

Let's make it a little more controlled at the 50% level.  Colour pairs of levers the same way such that each pair of effects have the same colour, but one effect must be bad, and the other must be good.  Thus, it still has the effect where the player can identify which levers have which possible effects while at the same time giving that element of surprise in it.  For example, a red lever can be either an armour healer or a enemy spawner -- it cannot be anything else.  So if you are a player and have discovered some time back that red levers are armour healers, you know that any other red levers can either be armour healers or some other nasty effect; your risk of trying the lever is still 50% but you now have an added information that allows you to make a more calculated risk (should I risk some nasty effect to repair my armour?).
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Thomas

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 02:37 »

There's technically more than 10.

Fill entire level with water (Good, WONDERFUL on N!)
Fill entire level with acid (Bad)
Fill entire level with lava (Bad)
Fill room with lava (Bad, Unannounced)
Fill room with acid (Bad, Unannounced)

Destroy all walls (Bad, Announced in BETA 2)
Destroy nearby walls (Bad, Unannounced)

Blow up all barrels (Good for veterans, Neutral for newbies that don't push barrels away, Unannounced)
Spawn enemies (Usually Good, Unannounced)

Meditech (Good, Unannounced)
Armour Depot (Good, Unannounced)

Kill lever (Useless, Unannounced)
"You smell blood" (Useless, Unannounced)

Of all 13: 6 bad, 5 good, 2 useless
Of the unannounced ones: 3 bad, 4 good, 2 useless

Therefore the current chance of something bad happening (in 0.9.9.1 BETA 2) is 1 in 3, assuming you know what all the level announcements mean. This is dropped to 1 in 9 if you carry an envirosuit.

Currently levers are already benefiting players more than they're hurting players (Although the "Destroy walls" lever is totally fucking brutal), which must be taken in to consideration should lever flavours be added.

Should this be added:
We would need more lever types. Even though levers can't really be compared to potions or scrolls (as they're immobile), most potion/scroll systems have 20+ effects.
We would need more unannounced unavoidable dangerous levers. Only 1 lever can currently hurt you if you pay attention to level messages and carry an envirosuit, so all that would be required is to identify the destroy walls lever and all other levers become dangerless.
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raekuul

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 14:03 »

The danger of the wall-destroyer varies with the player. Personally, I like them.

Anything that effects the entire level should be red, anything that does not should be not-red.

Maybe the colors should only be applied if Intuition 2 or better has been achieved?
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thelaptop

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 15:35 »

I've not gotten Int2 in a game before, but if I recall that does give you the effect of the lever?
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Tavana

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 16:00 »

It more just gives you an idea of what the lever will do, if it's a "good" or "bad" or "useless" lever.
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raekuul

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 19:41 »

Right-o. It's annoying to have int 2 and still have to walk on the lever to get an idea of what it does...

actually, bump this up to int 3. Int 2 should still require contact to learn that sort of stuff. Int 3 would work better for this idea.
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Tavana

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2010, 00:37 »

If the lever is in eyesight, try the [l]ook command.
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raekuul

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 13:00 »

While we're at it, let's make it so that you have to be on the lever to get the benefits of Intuition 2/3. If we include flavorings, then that's the only on-sight benefit you should get (as that is an extension of Intuition 2).

Besides, who's going to think to use the [l]ook command on a lever?
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Tavana

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 13:54 »

The moment you get Int 2, and know that it'll tell you what it means...why the heck wouldn't you?
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ParaSait

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 13:38 »

@Thomas:

About the Kill and "smell blood" levers:
Kill is not useless. IIRC if there are enemies in the same room they'll instantly die. It's not THAT much of a benefit, but at least it's not useless technically.
Also, aren't these 2 levers the same..?

EDIT: And yea I agree with Tavana. During the time you need to achieve Int 2, you'll have learnt the function of most of em already anyway if you haven't been extremely wimpy. That would make this trait, like, almost useless. ;D
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 13:42 by Mrazerty »
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Thomas

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 18:45 »

^^^^^^

They may be the same (Though it wouldn't change much because they both don't do anything)

Pulling levers while monsters are in the room is an excellent way to die. Doing it on the off-chance that you get "Kill Enemies" is stupid when you could also get "Destroy walls" or "Spawn Enemies" or "Fill Room with Acid".
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Drone

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Re: 'Flavoured' Levers
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2010, 04:51 »

Have it so that with level 2 int, the first time you use a lever is says "After examining this lever you're pretty sure it's an X" without activating it. The lever then has a 75% chance of being what you think it is, and a 25% of being another random lever.
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