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[ZZ]

The idea - make knockback into a wall hurt foes for an amount of damage equal to the number of knocked squares. Imagine - when you're pushed into a wall, why don't you take damage? And another - make special attack (fire) for some melee weapons - push. It knockes back for (2 + level of brute) squares away opponent, dealing zero damage. The distance is doubled if berserk.(10 squares maximum. Quite far)

[ChaoticJosh]

Shotguns would be devastating in the correct situation:

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Assuming you're using a combat shotty in this situation, you blast the baron for point blank damage, then he gets immediately knocked into the wall, dealing even more damage.

One question though, with this push skill, what would happen if you pushed an enemy into another enemy?

[leonresevil2]

I do like this idea, and it seems reasonable. Really, I would like to see anyone (human or beast) take a shotgun blast to the face with their back against the wall, and say it is not devastating.
I was thinking something along these lines the other day, pertaining to the double shotgun. The double shotty usually knocks back twice, and has rather sudden damage dropoff, which in certain situations can lead to the damage to decrease. For instance, you shoot with the double shotgun and knock a baron back two squares; the second round will be further away, leading to less damage, even though the shots should have been at the exact same time. In reality the double-barreled shotgun fires one big blast. The double shotgun could be changed to one big blast, but would likely be too powerful in that case, and would need to be weakened in even more areas to compensate. I would prefer to see this situation included, since enemies and the player can bounce off of walls from knockback, and these walls shouldn't be made of soft rubber to bounce off. Knockback into walls should cause some damage, based on the force of the knockback. Perhaps even a knockback-stun could be included on enemies. I would say that enemy collisions should have a very small damage amount (1-2 damage), or the stun situation when enemies fall upon each other. Each enemy could have a chance to be stunned, with bigger enemies being more resistant, and perhaps mancubi would be invulnerable to stun due to their size, same with cyberdemon.

The melee push idea would be ok if there were uniques or exotics like hammers. Pushing could not be done with knives or the chainsaw, as far as I can see, and push should not be that strong for simply fists. I would say that the Push numbers could be decreased, since 2 squares minimum is quite large, and 10 squares is a very long distance for most maps. The problem is, why push when you can punch? I can see some uses (clearing a doorway of a baron, pushing into lava) but not enough to work it into most melee weapons. I think the Push idea would be better suited for a new melee Unique hammer (my vote for Thor's Hammer!)

[ChaoticJosh]

Why push when you can punch? Being able to strategically knock enemies into lava sounds immensely useful.

[leonresevil2]

It would have uses, and I suppose it would be worth thinking about, and perhaps putting into a beta format for testing. I would like to see how the AI reacts to being pushed, and if spam-pushing against lava just ends up being cheap shot tricks for easy kills. If the AI can fight back against that kind of action, and it works out to be fair, then I would be ok with it.
Also, what's to say that barons couldn't push you back just the same? That element would make fighting them more interesting (and more difficult) in melee.

And, I really hate to say it, but is Pushing doomish? I'm not sure either way myself. It's just something to consider, if the gameplay element fits into the style and flow of the game.

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

IMO, knockback is fine the way it is. With these suggestions, it's as if you WANT to make the game harder for yourself. Do you really want to survive an endgame mancubus attack, only to die because of a wall?

[ZZ]

10 squares is huge, I know. But Berserk+3*Brute is huge too. The man who posses this power can actually throw opponents.
And of dying because of the wall - remember, wall damage does not sum up with other sources, making red armour a nightmare for wall kills.
And for pushing enemies into other enemies - the correct way is that they both deal each other damage, equal the sum of their armors. And the hit one flies for half of distance which first had to fly before the collision.

[Thomas]

IMO, knockback is fine the way it is. With these suggestions, it's as if you WANT to make the game harder for yourself. Do you really want to survive an endgame mancubus attack, only to die because of a wall?

The idea could work well if finely balanced. Right now with armour, boots and tech mods, "Knockback" is a resource that can be managed but almost always isn't. With a knocked-in-to-wall damage that is too high to be ignored but too low to instakill you, the game would provide more tactical choices.

Also fighting a mancubus with a wall behind you is already absolutely stupid in every way.