DRL > Requests For Features
How to make agility mods useful for shotguns
leonresevil2:
I have been thinking, what does the agility mod really do for weapons? Of course, it increases accuracy. Meaning, it increases the chance that each bullet fired will hit. The issue is, shotguns always hit within their shot patterns. So, the agility mod is currently useless to shotguns.
However let's look at this a little bit differently, not basing the numbers off of DoomRL, but just a representation of concept. Say you fire 10 chaingun bullets, and 5 hit, 5 miss, on average. You apply an agility mod, and now your average is 6 hit, 4 miss. Another mod, and it becomes 7-3. Now, let's say that a shotgun fires 100 bits of shrapnel in each fire. Estimate for sake of simplicity that the shotgun has a 100 degree blast angle, therefore 10 shrapnel go each 10 degrees. So, an enemy up close is likely to be hit from most or all shrapnel, and an enemy far away is likely to be hit with 10 or less shrapnel. Let's say an enemy is far enough away that 10 shrapnel approach him, and only 5 hit. My thought is, apply the agility mod, and now 6 or seven shrapnel hit. Of course, at closer distances, more shrapnel will hit each time.
The idea is almost like auto-targeting bullet shrapnel, but the idea can be implemented in a few ways. I will attempt to demonstrate how I can see the implementations, represented by an image with the character, shooting a shotgun, and numbers representing the "relative" damage, not accurate to the game, but damage to an enemy in that square compared to damage at other squares.
The normal estimate damage map:
--- Code: ---...1......
.4321.....
@54321....
.4321.....
...1......
--- End code ---
Implementation 1, concentrating (auto-targeting) shrapnel in mods 1-3:
--- Code: ---...2...... ...3...... ...4......
.5432..... .6543..... .7654.....
@65432.... @76543.... @87654....
.5432..... .6543..... .7654.....
...2...... ...3...... ...4......
--- End code ---
Implementation 2, extending blast radius in mods 1-3:
--- Code: ---...11..... ...111.... ...1111...
.43211.... .432111... .4321111..
@543211... @5432111.. @54321111.
.43211.... .432111... .4321111..
...11..... ...111.... ...1111...
--- End code ---
Implementation 3, slowing dropoff in mods 1-3:
--- Code: ---...21..... ...221.... ...3221...
.43321.... .443321... .4433221..
@543321... @5544321.. @55443321.
.43321.... .443321... .4433221..
...21..... ...221.... ...3221...
--- End code ---
Basically, Im. 1 is similar to (I assume) the effects of a power mod, but would keep shotguns as close-range weapons. Im. 2 makes shotguns the perfect scouting weapons, as enemies from longer distances can be hit for sure, but will only receive minimum damage at any ranges outside of the existing shotgun ranges. Im. 3 slows down the damage drop-off, making the shotgun better at close and medium ranges, plus still great for scouting (probably better than Im 2 since the damage at long range is likely to be slightly larger.), but possibly over-powered and unbalancing for the game.
Please vote on which implementation you feel would be better for the game, or make your own suggestions and recommendations. Remember, these numbers and images are not based on the game damage rates, but simply to get the ideas across in visual form. Thank you for reading, and I hope you appreciate the effort put in to the post.
EDIT: I personally am not going to vote, as I would like to hear the thoughts and ideas from the community here, the more expert players, and Kornel, as he knows what the mods are supposed to do. The goal here is to create an improvement to shotguns by utilizing an existing mod option, and making the mod effective a way that is balanced yet useful for shotgun users. I am a shotgun user, but I want to hear what you all think.
ChaoticJosh:
Alright, who voted and didn't offer imput? I think option two would be preferable, as it would add more usefulness to the double shotty, because at this point in time I rarely use it due to the frustratingly short range.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a single agility mod make the double shotty into substitute Jackhammer, but adding one more tile of range won't hurt, and it makes advanced shottys more valuable.
leonresevil2:
Agreed, the effects of the mods would have to be balanced in order to prevent over-powered shotguns. Most shotguns have a lot of theoretical damage potential, but they tend to lose that awesomeness and 'kick' in the later game, combined with the thinning amounts of shotgun ammo in the late game. MAD helps to balance out the weakness of shrapnel damage, but that shotgun Master build still has some weaknesses in range, ammo, weapon variety, move speed, etc. I am hoping to see one of the key elements of the game (agility mods) become useful for one of the character build options in the game (shotgunner). A shotgun build shouldn't be OP compared to the other build options, but should stand comparable. So, the implementations I have listed would need to be balanced in code effects and such, to add effects from the agility mod(s) without making a shotgun build the best option. As it is, MAc is one of the easiest builds to win with, if you play safe and take advantage of the game elements. In short, I want it to be balanced, which is why I am not taking a side in voting or anything, I just want to see agility mods implemented for shotguns in a 'proper' way.
On that note, I have still not voted, I am unsure which method would work, and I am still thinking about it. In fact, a friend of mine (who has not played the game [yet]) suggested that, in his mind, increasing accuracy for a shotgun could either make the blast range thinner yet more concentrated and powerful (and possibly longer), or increase the spread width (I think that's how I understood him). I could draw up these ideas if anyone is interested in them, and I can change the voting options (and you can still re-vote I believe). The voting options are limited to 5, AFAIK, which makes additional options hard to add (I would maybe remove "Other").
UnderAPaleGreySky:
--- Quote from: leonresevil2 on March 01, 2010, 21:01 ---[...]but that shotgun Master build still has some weaknesses in range, ammo, weapon variety, move speed, etc.
--- End quote ---
Maybe so, but can any other Master build clear an entire room full of enemies with only a very little amount of ammo spent?
Frankosity:
Yeah. Ammochain.
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