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Author Topic: Class System Concept - Community Discussion  (Read 8201 times)

Tuomari Jim

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Re: Class System Concept - Community Discussion
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2011, 03:25 »

Ok, let me rephrase. Why do we need a class system?
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Sambojin

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Re: Class System Concept - Community Discussion
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2011, 20:45 »

Since you asked.

Is there any reason why there shouldn't be one?

(The original Doom had one class. But DoomRL has gone way beyond the original, in both game design and complexity. That would be the only argument I could see being vaguely valid for a reason not to do it. Kornel has made some pretty damn cool things out of a bit of IRC talk or forum suggestions. There's no reason why this wouldn't be just as good. It would make it quite a different game, with room for new master traits, different build styles and different tactics being an option. Free WK(1) for techies to make most assemblies possible? A HR level at the start for scouts? Or something completely different? Who knows where Kornel will take it? MAc is fixed now, this could open a whole new world of build revisions :) ).
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thelaptop

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Re: Class System Concept - Community Discussion
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 21:35 »

If DoomRL is going to have a class system where all the traits are grouped into various trait trees and the choice of the class initially will forever limit what traits can be taken, then I'm going to say nay.  One key aspect of the relatively "flat" trait structure that we have now is the flexibility in choice of build based on situation.  This does not preclude the whole requirement tree that we currently have.  But if we introduce a class system where you must first choose the class which then limits your choices of traits, I think it is very counterproductive -- if there is a need for trait restriction, the various challenges by the form of Angel of <X> are sufficient in persuading a certain build.

Even if there are specific bonuses for the class via the synergies, it still does not deal with the fact that you have to make a choice immediately before the game starts.  DoomRL is a relatively short rogue-like as compared to others, so the whole concept of "character development" is shady at best.  Why do we need to artificially limit ourselves in the choice of traits at the get-go when we are not likely to be traversing the whole class tree?

I think that the current Master Trait set up is sufficient.  I'm all for the cute and interesting titles for the various types of builds that people do -- it is not artificially limiting, but it does add a little flavour to what will effectively become a cliched choice of traits for a cliched type of run.

In short, unless I have more information on how Kornel wants to do up the class system, I'm going to say no to it.
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Thexare

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Re: Class System Concept - Community Discussion
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2011, 21:43 »

I personally had an idea wherein the traits would have somewhat varying effects per class (Whizkid giving more extra mod slots for a Technician, for example), with the new classes having a couple of the Marine's Master Traits that fit as well as a few new ones exclusively available to them.

But the important part of that is that the ones the Marine is locked out of be new - add, don't subtract.
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Simon-v

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Re: Class System Concept - Community Discussion
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2011, 04:08 »

Do you know how the classes idea came to be? Originally (and i heard him say so himself), Kornel wanted to have more traits but had no room for them on the trait screen, so instead of rewriting the trait screen to allow scrolling or branching, which would require a lot of work indeed, he decided to just add classes to the mix.

You know what would solve the issue above, besides classes? Making only traits that can be picked (or are already picked) visible on the trait screen. So, for example, you would only see the basic traits at first, but once you have worked your way through Finesse you would see Whizkid in the list, and once you have both Badass and Berserker you'd see Vampyre. Of course, every trait would have a list of Requires, Unlocks and Blocks traits, so you'd know what you're working towards. Unfortunately, when i suggested that, he shot it down because it "wasn't transparent enough" (implying that the classes system would actually be so). That, completely ignoring the fact you could have a one-line description next to the traits in the Requires-Unlocks-Blocks list, that experimentation is quite within the spirit of roguelikes, that there are plenty of other non-obvious and non-transparent things in the game already, that the entire trait tree can be included in the in-game manual (does nobody read those things anymore?), and that we have the wiki.

Considering all the above, i am strongly against classes in DoomRL. But, then again, who am i, anyway?
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