DRL > Requests For Features

changes to challanges

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Melon:

--- Quote from: Angles of death on July 19, 2010, 01:30 ---I do like the current rewards but Hells Arena is an absouloute bitch at times (57%) I think you should get a double shotgun and some shotty shells (about 50)and maybe something else on nightmare (Hells Arena is almost impossible on nightmare so it should be more friendly with rewards but not too friendly)

--- End quote ---

Than play Angel of Shotgunnery

kingwesleyr:

--- Quote from: Mrazerty on July 17, 2010, 13:42 ---Oh wow. I'm sorry but, that looks like one of the worst suggestions I ever saw.

--- End quote ---
isn't that just a tad bit harsh okay
i see what u guys mean now, i just thought that it was point less when i frist played and now i understand
they are both rare and useful so i now under stand the use

kingwesleyr:

--- Quote from: Angles of death on July 19, 2010, 01:30 ---I do like the current rewards but Hells Arena is an absouloute bitch at times (57%) I think you should get a double shotgun and some shotty shells (about 50)and maybe something else on nightmare (Hells Arena is almost impossible on nightmare so it should be more friendly with rewards but not too friendly)

--- End quote ---
also i agree with that
maybe a chancce for a rare but not too powerful weapon

Game Hunter:
Since this is a discussion of special level changes, I have some suggestions for different rewards and items and such. A lot of special levels on Nightmare! are not well-scaled by comparison of their UV (or easier) counterparts. These include:

- Hell's Arena needs a N! buff, potentially even between waves. Putting a couple small med-packs or a large med-pack after the first and second waves would certainly improve survivability, and a plasma rifle would be useful at the end. Honestly? You usually find a commando by level five or six in N!: this isn't any better than getting rockets so early on any other difficulty.
- For The Wall, either buff the BackPack to count 200% for capacity instead of 140% or make the weapon a Railgun or similar unique (maybe a new one altogether). You can't complain unless you've actually successfully completed N! The Wall.
- Hell's Armory should have a guaranteed exotic/unique weapon on the other side, simple enough.
- I don't think a Bruiser Brother (just one, not two) at the other side of the Halls of Carnage is unfair. The level is rather easy in comparison to the other levels, and the BFG is a huge lifesaver in N!.
- Hellgate should place Supercharge Globes in the entrance instead of Large Healing Globes. Those of you who deal with N! Hellgate know why this is vital and not overkill, and why phase devices are practically staples on most challenges.
- The Vaults should have two/three special items, whether they be exotic or unique. If you want to prevent possible abuse, force two of them to be in the central vault.
- Monsters should not continue to respawn after completing the Mortuary. This relates to the bug Styro submitted, and it's kind of a dick-move in a level that you have supposedly "cleansed".
- Lava Pits should have a guaranteed set of phaseshift or gothic equipment on the other side. It's mostly for coolness, and that late you can either beat Cybie or you can't, may as well have a nice gift in there.
- Do something cool for Phobos Arena, maybe put a bunch of Lost Souls in there like the original Tower of Babel (first encounter in DooM with the Cyberdemon).

Everything easier than N! is pretty balanced, other than (perhaps) The Vaults, which are barely worth going to on HNTR. Hell's Arena is a fair reward once you realize that beating it is pretty darn easy, though I wouldn't be against revising benefits for other challenges:

- AoMr: N! gives blaster, no mod.
- AoSg: N! gives super shotgun instead of double shotgun.
- AoLT: Protective boots, no cells; N! gives BackPack, no rocket launcher.
- AoPu: Three large med-packs total, remove SuperCharge Globe.
- AoMs: Red armor instead of blue armor.

UltimateChaos:
I definitely agree about stepping up the rewards on higher difficulties of certain special levels, and with most of what Game Hunter posted.  As to specifics...

-Hell's Arena on N! *is* a platinum badge, and ought to be incredibly difficult.  On a standard game, I won't even enter it without a combat shotty, and I'd rather have some kind of powerup and chaingun to boot.  (Chain gun is pretty much guaranteed on N! by the time this level generates... even on UV.)  That being said, I think a plasma rifle should spawn instead of the chaingun.  Not sure about a medpack or two, but both would give incentive to move around instead of just spamming shotgun shells from behind a pillar.

Awards:
AoB:  A random weapon of the melee variety, heheheh.  Seeing as how it's the most difficult challenge mode to defeat the Arena on, it seems only fitting the award be good as well.  Chainsaw, butcher's cleaver, or perhaps DS can be generated!  (Hehehe, imagine the rage at getting the chainsaw generated or maybe even a combat knife o_O.  Okay, maybe rule out the combat knife and just stick with a Cleaver.)

AoMr:  A blaster would be a heavensend, although perhaps a bit OP?  Granted this challenge is next to impossible, but I would fall in love with the idea of a random exo/uni pistol.  One of the main challenges of a pistol game is feeding that ammo consumption rate, after all.  Since the normal Arena rewards and the AoB rewards both serve to help gain access to the Wall, perhaps an Anti-Freak Jackal (which ought to be an exotic imo) could be awarded?

AoSg:  An easier Hell's Arena challenge, I would also like the idea of a random unique/exo shotty.  Double shotty at this stage is a decent reward, but maybe drop a power mod as well on N! ?  Even though these are difficult levels, I'm sure dropping uni/exo gear at such a low level would cause balance issues.  That said, would certainly be nice, if perhaps a bit OP.

AoPu:  I love the idea for tailored rewards for these challenges, would give actual non-exp incentive to enter.  Definitely ought to replace the supercharge globe with some med kits, since AoSg and AoMr tailor their awards for their specific challenges respectively.

AoLT:  Curious why you'd replace the cells with boots, it's a strong assumption that boots are better suited to AoLT game.  Backpack would be nice on N! of course, but you can already get it at the wall.  One of the main reasons I always try to clear Arena no matter the difficulty is so I can get enough rockets to comfortably blaze through The Wall and go for that backpack and Missile launcher.

-The Wall has the best rewards out of all the special levels imo, given the stage at when you come across it.  The backpack is a great space saver and the missile launcher is one of my most favorite weapons in the game.  Just as useful on N!, don't see why that would need changing.

-Hell's Armory should *absolutely* have a guaranteed exotic/unique on the other side.  It doesn't even guarantee that it fits a current build, but compared to the other nearby special levels the rewards are kind of week, although the mods are nice.  It also doesn't make a lot of sense, here are all these soldiers carrying around plasma rifles and chainguns, and they are guarding a storage of 4 shotgun/pistol etc. >.<

-Halls of Carnage has more health than is really needed imo, although a bit more difficult on N!.  A bruiser brother at the end wouldn't really make story sense, but wouldn't be a bad buff to the level.  Although if you aren't corner shooting, the current enemies are already formidable.

-Hellgate.  Heh.  On N!, fun stuff.  A supercharge globe would be fantastic, but the two large healing globes encourages you to run away to hide in the little room from Hell, giving you that choice of turning back or pressing forward after the first wave of monsters come.  Good stuff as is.  (Yes, Hellgate on N! is a nightmare, but aptly so.)

-Vaults  I absolutely agree.  Having Vaults with no exotic or unique items generated is just silly.  Clearing them is enough of a pain and requires a solid marine that having one or two random uniques or exotics won't make a game breaking difference that deep in Hell.  It seems like the Vault awards have gotten toned down recently, after entry into the vaults becomes more and more public knowledge.

-Clearing special levels on N!.  After a special level has been cleared, it should stay cleared, this seems fair enough.  "Bringing Peace back to this evil place" followed by being assaulted by Barons of Hell doesn't seem to make much sense.

-Lava Pits.  I agree that there should be a good chance of spawning at least one piece from the Gothic/Phase set, seeing as how they are almost impossible to compete in any given game.  So having one piece of gothic or phase set would increase incentive to tackle this difficult and otherwise unrewarding level.

One issue with a lot of these suggestions is that it only serves to make N! easier, when the direction we are headed in is making N! harder.  I agree that some rewards need to be scaled, but it's going to be tricky to scale appropriately without overdoing it. 

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