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[LockeCarnelia]

Slam Firing is where you take a pump shotgun and hold down the trigger and pump it rapidly, resulting in, basically, a crude semi-automatic shotgun.  This often damages the weapon, though.  Seeing as though the Combat Shotgun is a pump-action, we should be able to do this, and it would help with Combat Shotty Users.

Basically, what it would do is be a special firing mode for Combat Shotties that halves the firing time, but reduces the range of the shotgun to the 8 units that Double-Barreled Shotguns normally use, along with a 5% chance of breaking the weapon outright.

[Game Hunter]

You're suggesting to add a feature to a weapon that is arguably the best stand-alone weapon in the game (when factoring its relative drop-rate, the answer is obvious) that would remove the one weakness it could possibly have: up-close damage. Unless something happens to the combatty in the future that reduces its usefulness, this is an unnecessary buff. I have a feeling the feature will just make more people want to hoard a few and choose MAD over MFa.

Granted, it's a pretty sweet idea, but 5% per SHOT is pretty large if the consequence is losing the weapon. I'd rather there be a chance to jam the shotgun, meaning you'll have to unload and reload it before it'll start working again. This stops from utterly screwing the entire game and just screws your current situation (which is why you'd have at least one spare).

Also, quick note: the Wiki sets double shotgun drop-off at 20% per square, meaning its range is stuck at 5-6 (depending on if adjacent is 100% damage).

[Cyber Killer]

Isn't this basically what the jackhammer does? (but without the weapon breaking penalty)

[LockeCarnelia]

No.  Jackhammer basically acts as the Assault version of the DBS.

This'll reduce firing rate of the shotty, and not much else, along with shortening the range to like 5-6.

I can understand how some people would think this is off-balanced, but.... *shrug*  I throw ideas out there, not all of them can be brilliant.  XD

[Game Hunter]

I can understand how some people would think this is off-balanced, but.... *shrug*  I throw ideas out there, not all of them can be brilliant.  XD

If the combat shotgun weren't already useful in so many ways, I would be all for this addition (albeit using "jam" instead of "break" as the caveat). As the weapon stands, however, there's no reasonable way to improve it besides fixing the inherent firing problems in the code (which sounds like it's done).

To be fair, there is absolutely no reason anyone would use the shotty over its combat relative. I'm better off addressing this in another thread (gonna go to general balancing), but I'll summarize by stating that the pump-action makes Shottyman a pretty limited trait, and the very minor loss of damage from the original is practically a throw-away exchange: something like 8d2 damage makes much more sense from a gamer's perspective. I mean, if Sergeants used combats instead of shotguns, no one would ever get past the first few floors.

[rchandra]

it seems to me that one will always be more useful than the other - and the combat and double are both more useful than the shotgun, if not strictly so.  I don't think that's a problem - and once you have shottyman, the normal shotgun can be used over the combat in some situations.

The combat shotgun making shottyman (and reloader) less desirable is a bit of a problem.  Perhaps get rid of the step-pump and just use the reduced reloading time when pumping as its advantage (possibly further reducing the pump time)?
edit: of course adding the slam-fire would be a fine compensation for removing the step-pump!

[TFoN]

I prefer the regular shotty when radaring. Its range is longer than the double's and its cone wider than the combat's.
But, then again, I may be sorely deluded and/or forgetting something. Don't play as much as I used to.

That said, assuming I'm not missing something here, this is a good enough reason for me to hang on to a standard shotgun for quite a long while.

As for the combat shotty-Shottyman thing, why not just make the pump cost absolutely nothing? That's stepping on the assault's toes a bit, but meh - give the assault shotty the ability to slam-fire at absolutely no penalty, when used in conjunction with Shottyman. This won't step on the jackhammer's toes since it's more versatile via magazine size and range.

[LockeCarnelia]

In my opinion, making an already quick-firing weapon like the Assault Shotty even faster firing with no penalty with the slam-fire option is not so good of an idea.  Although it would balance the Assault Shotty a bit more with the Plasma Shotty, since the Plasma Shotty pretty much blows the Assault one out of the water on every single game except for when you get MAD.

[Sambojin]

I can't say I'd agree with slam-firing. The combat shotgun is jack-of-all-trades weapon for most builds anyway, and I often bring one along with a clip of shells even for just it's scouting abilities. No matter the build/difficulty level or play-style I'm aiming for. And the assault shotgun is a nice up-grade to that (and the one in a later special level makes sure a shotgun build is always possible in late game).

The only thing that really needs to be changed is the normal shotgun. I've got some ideas (many quite stupid) for an alt-fire mode to keep them useful and practical weapons all game. Once I've refined my thoughts a little I'll post them.

[Sambojin]

A double post, but continuing on from the last.....

Would a wall-breaching single-barrel shotgun alt-fire be worthwhile? Just as a broad thought?

Ingame: Shotgun alt-fire. Costs 5 shells, takes 5(?) seconds fire time and has a 70%(?) drop-off. High damage (damage=wall hit-points). May have to use plasma damage to destroy walls. Possibly destroying weapon (% or not?).

Explanation: I'm kind of assuming all shells in DoomRL have progressed to the point of being case-less ammunition. So therefore there is no base-collar on shells (or bullets for that matter, regardless of the original doom graphics), perhaps only priming charges to be pumped out/cleared. So this represents the marine "over-charging" a single-barrel shotty with five shells, ramming extra ones down the barrel, holding it against the wall and blasting them through. Maybe even just like a normal "over-charge" in that it destroys the weapon (or a percent chance to destroy it). A breach charge, slow to load/fire and of limited use with high drop-off. You can breach-charge a wall right next to you, but anything further is foolish. If damage was made to be just over wall hitpoints on average (small random modifier) but very high drop-off (and weapon destruction %) it would be useless for combat, but very useful out-of-combat. Too slow, too costly, but very handy to have. Just a good thing to make rockets as not your only wall breacher (I'm aware there's others). But it also stops early game deaths via acid pits/extreme monster room, etc.

I'd carry a shotgun through hell for corners/breaching. Otherwise, I'll just keep carrying my combat shotty for corners/scouting as always.........

[Game Hunter]

Would a wall-breaching single-barrel shotgun alt-fire be worthwhile? Just as a broad thought?

Ingame: Shotgun alt-fire. Costs 5 shells, takes 5(?) seconds fire time and has a 70%(?) drop-off. High damage (damage=wall hit-points). May have to use plasma damage to destroy walls. Possibly destroying weapon (% or not?).

I'd carry a shotgun through hell for corners/breaching. Otherwise, I'll just keep carrying my combat shotty for corners/scouting as always.........

A shotgun alt-fire that breaches walls would be nice, but I'm not sure how realistic that would be. I mean, we're not talking about the hollow walls you find in your house, these are massive, stone, monolithic structures. Even the Phobos Base probably consists of metallic constructs given the nature of the game (to take a guess, you're descending into the moon). Bullets are powerful but they don't have the same explosive power of rockets or penetration of super-heated plasma.

That aside, a five-second firing time is WAY too much. If you want to make the reload time high, even to that magnitude, that's okay. I would never use a wall-breaching attack that potentially leaves me open to enemies, then forces me to squat for five seconds while they rip me apart. The idea of making it the overcharged effect is actually interesting enough to work because there are so many Sergeants to supply extras.

[Deathwind]

I mean, if Sergeants used combats instead of shotguns, no one would ever get past the first few floors.

I think we have our next challenge option.