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Monster Tiers & Irks

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Game Hunter:
DoomRL hosts a near-full cast of monsters from the original series. However, many enemies are different from those games, partly because there's no cure for genre-changing, partly due to creative liberties. This is how I rank the current DoomRL monsters, for the difficulty of HNTR (special enemies and bosses excluded):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)EnemyJustificationEasy:Former HumanVery low HP; very low damage threat.Lost SoulVery low HP; extremely fast but attack is melee; very low damage threat.Former CaptainVery low HP; multiple attacks but inaccurate; very low-low damage threat (depends on proximity).DemonLow HP and armored; fast but attack is melee; low damage threat.ImpVery low HP; splash damage; low damage threat.Former SergeantVery low HP; always hits, can cause knockback; very low-medium damage threat (depends on proximity)Medium:Pain ElementalMedium HP; causes no damage, summons multiple Lost Souls; low-medium damage threat (depends on priority).CacodemonMedium HP; splash damage, can destroy items (low chance); medium damage threatFormer CommandoLow HP but armored; multiple attacks but inaccurate; medium-high damage threat (depends on proximity).Hell KnightMedium HP; splash damage, can destroy items (low chance); medium damage threatArachnotronMedium-high HP and armored; multiple attacks but inaccurate; fast; medium-very high damage threat (depends on proximity).Hard:Baron of HellHigh HP and armored; splash damage; high damage threat.RevenantLow-medium HP but heavily armored; fast; homing attack, splash damage; very high damage threat.MancubusHigh HP and armored; slow; multiple attacks but very inaccurate; extreme damage threat.Arch-vileVery high HP and armored; resurrects enemies; very fast; homing attack, splash damage; very high damage threat.
Obviously my list changes for HMP, UV, and N!. This is what the enemies are capable of without any bonuses. Please comment on anything that should be changed (and note that it's based on HNTR. If you feel like adapting the list to other difficulties, be my guest).

More importantly, I was hoping for this discussion to open up on the topic of problems that monsters have...characteristics that make them harder than they should. Maybe Revs shouldn't have homing attacks (or at least 100% of the time), Arch-viles could have a large firing time for their attack (or charge time, as in the game). Naturally players are exploiting the game, but the enemies themselves are exploiting what has been given to them by the creator. I figure we should compile a list of concerns as to what could (or should) be changed with regards to particular monsters.

Thomas:
My current gripes with the enemies would be:

Cacodemon and Hell Knight are too samey.
As Hell Knights are more defensive than cacodemons in the current version, that should be emphasised by giving the cacodemon less health (or perhaps a natural dodge penalty? They were pretty easy to hit in DooM 2) and a better attack.

The Arch-Vile's attack is perhaps a bit too good. Instead of a straightforward nerf, it would be interesting to give it a delay and more power.

As for the revenant's attack, I think it's more or less fine. The only change I'd suggest is make 'dodging' a revenant shot have a more noticable effect. I think in 0.9.9.1 when you dodge a revenant attack it does half damage, but this sounds wrong because rockets normally do full damage to everything in the blast radius. Either way, it could stand to be a bit lower.

Game Hunter:

--- Quote from: Thomas on October 31, 2010, 02:03 ---Cacodemon and Hell Knight are too samey.
As Hell Knights are more defensive than cacodemons in the current version, that should be emphasised by giving the cacodemon less health (or perhaps a natural dodge penalty? They were pretty easy to hit in DooM 2) and a better attack.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps, since Cacos are floating enemies, a change to introduce double (or greater) knockback against any enemy above ground would make them different enough. Also, if I recall correctly, Cacodemons were prone to attacking almost constantly, as opposed to the more casual AI of the Hell Knight.


--- Quote from: Thomas on October 31, 2010, 02:03 ---The Arch-Vile's attack is perhaps a bit too good. Instead of a straightforward nerf, it would be interesting to give it a delay and more power.
--- End quote ---
I was thinking along the lines of a 2x charge time (relative to its speed) that requires a continuous line of sight to work, but change the damage to 11d2 instead of 11d1. Overall, the DPS goes down, but it's a much more potent smack if you're not careful. (Additionally we could make it so that knockback can disrupt the attack, though this could prove too exploitable.)


--- Quote from: Thomas on October 31, 2010, 02:03 ---As for the revenant's attack, I think it's more or less fine. The only change I'd suggest is make 'dodging' a revenant shot have a more noticable effect. I think in 0.9.9.1 when you dodge a revenant attack it does half damage, but this sounds wrong because rockets normally do full damage to everything in the blast radius. Either way, it could stand to be a bit lower.
--- End quote ---
In Doom II, Revenant attacks came in two varieties: straight-line (like every other projectile) and homing. What attack ends up being used was completely random, though for obvious reasons the homing was more deadly. We could tinker with it a bit so that it's random between homing and not, with the homing attack causing significantly less damage (maybe even half).

What pesters me (and most veterans) more than any other monster is the Arachnotron, for the sole reason that it has increased speed. Why? It's not like they were fast at all in Doom II. You could stand to give them a higher accuracy (justified by a very fast projectile speed in the original) but the speed is simply too much, especially in Arach caves, and ESPECIALLY on N!.

mcz117chief:
I think arachnotrons, are way too powerful. I come around a corner and get blasted to dust in a turn of two. I can hardly pull of a shot before geting attacked heavily.

Stormlock:
I sort of think of the barons and archviles as being in their own tier personally. Barons are just incredibly difficult to kill when they make use of items. Full healing, phasing, red armor wearing barons are a nightmare. Archviles are there for the obvious reasons. Mancubus and Revenants aren't nearly as troublesome, since they're harmless in melee range and not especially fast or durable. Arachnotrons are also nearly harmless in melee range, considering the xp and ammo they cough up.

Don't the barons also destroy armor faster with their attack?

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