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[Game Hunter]

DoomRL hosts a near-full cast of monsters from the original series. However, many enemies are different from those games, partly because there's no cure for genre-changing, partly due to creative liberties. This is how I rank the current DoomRL monsters, for the difficulty of HNTR (special enemies and bosses excluded):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Enemy	Justification
Easy:
Former Human	Very low HP; very low damage threat.
Lost Soul	Very low HP; extremely fast but attack is melee; very low damage threat.
Former Captain	Very low HP; multiple attacks but inaccurate; very low-low damage threat (depends on proximity).
Demon	Low HP and armored; fast but attack is melee; low damage threat.
Imp	Very low HP; splash damage; low damage threat.
Former Sergeant	Very low HP; always hits, can cause knockback; very low-medium damage threat (depends on proximity)
Medium:
Pain Elemental	Medium HP; causes no damage, summons multiple Lost Souls; low-medium damage threat (depends on priority).
Cacodemon	Medium HP; splash damage, can destroy items (low chance); medium damage threat
Former Commando	Low HP but armored; multiple attacks but inaccurate; medium-high damage threat (depends on proximity).
Hell Knight	Medium HP; splash damage, can destroy items (low chance); medium damage threat
Arachnotron	Medium-high HP and armored; multiple attacks but inaccurate; fast; medium-very high damage threat (depends on proximity).
Hard:
Baron of Hell	High HP and armored; splash damage; high damage threat.
Revenant	Low-medium HP but heavily armored; fast; homing attack, splash damage; very high damage threat.
Mancubus	High HP and armored; slow; multiple attacks but very inaccurate; extreme damage threat.
Arch-vile	Very high HP and armored; resurrects enemies; very fast; homing attack, splash damage; very high damage threat.

Obviously my list changes for HMP, UV, and N!. This is what the enemies are capable of without any bonuses. Please comment on anything that should be changed (and note that it's based on HNTR. If you feel like adapting the list to other difficulties, be my guest).

More importantly, I was hoping for this discussion to open up on the topic of problems that monsters have...characteristics that make them harder than they should. Maybe Revs shouldn't have homing attacks (or at least 100% of the time), Arch-viles could have a large firing time for their attack (or charge time, as in the game). Naturally players are exploiting the game, but the enemies themselves are exploiting what has been given to them by the creator. I figure we should compile a list of concerns as to what could (or should) be changed with regards to particular monsters.

[Thomas]

My current gripes with the enemies would be:

Cacodemon and Hell Knight are too samey.
As Hell Knights are more defensive than cacodemons in the current version, that should be emphasised by giving the cacodemon less health (or perhaps a natural dodge penalty? They were pretty easy to hit in DooM 2) and a better attack.

The Arch-Vile's attack is perhaps a bit too good. Instead of a straightforward nerf, it would be interesting to give it a delay and more power.

As for the revenant's attack, I think it's more or less fine. The only change I'd suggest is make 'dodging' a revenant shot have a more noticable effect. I think in 0.9.9.1 when you dodge a revenant attack it does half damage, but this sounds wrong because rockets normally do full damage to everything in the blast radius. Either way, it could stand to be a bit lower.

[Game Hunter]

Cacodemon and Hell Knight are too samey.
As Hell Knights are more defensive than cacodemons in the current version, that should be emphasised by giving the cacodemon less health (or perhaps a natural dodge penalty? They were pretty easy to hit in DooM 2) and a better attack.

Perhaps, since Cacos are floating enemies, a change to introduce double (or greater) knockback against any enemy above ground would make them different enough. Also, if I recall correctly, Cacodemons were prone to attacking almost constantly, as opposed to the more casual AI of the Hell Knight.

The Arch-Vile's attack is perhaps a bit too good. Instead of a straightforward nerf, it would be interesting to give it a delay and more power.

I was thinking along the lines of a 2x charge time (relative to its speed) that requires a continuous line of sight to work, but change the damage to 11d2 instead of 11d1. Overall, the DPS goes down, but it's a much more potent smack if you're not careful. (Additionally we could make it so that knockback can disrupt the attack, though this could prove too exploitable.)

As for the revenant's attack, I think it's more or less fine. The only change I'd suggest is make 'dodging' a revenant shot have a more noticable effect. I think in 0.9.9.1 when you dodge a revenant attack it does half damage, but this sounds wrong because rockets normally do full damage to everything in the blast radius. Either way, it could stand to be a bit lower.

In Doom II, Revenant attacks came in two varieties: straight-line (like every other projectile) and homing. What attack ends up being used was completely random, though for obvious reasons the homing was more deadly. We could tinker with it a bit so that it's random between homing and not, with the homing attack causing significantly less damage (maybe even half).

What pesters me (and most veterans) more than any other monster is the Arachnotron, for the sole reason that it has increased speed. Why? It's not like they were fast at all in Doom II. You could stand to give them a higher accuracy (justified by a very fast projectile speed in the original) but the speed is simply too much, especially in Arach caves, and ESPECIALLY on N!.

[mcz117chief]

I think arachnotrons, are way too powerful. I come around a corner and get blasted to dust in a turn of two. I can hardly pull of a shot before geting attacked heavily.

[Stormlock]

I sort of think of the barons and archviles as being in their own tier personally. Barons are just incredibly difficult to kill when they make use of items. Full healing, phasing, red armor wearing barons are a nightmare. Archviles are there for the obvious reasons. Mancubus and Revenants aren't nearly as troublesome, since they're harmless in melee range and not especially fast or durable. Arachnotrons are also nearly harmless in melee range, considering the xp and ammo they cough up.

Don't the barons also destroy armor faster with their attack?

[kossa]

Rev's are missing their powerful "rocket" punch. Try to get punched on Doom 2 and you'll see what I mean. Mancubi don't have splash damage on Doom 2 but without it they would become relatively harmless in DoomRL.

[Game Hunter]

I sort of think of the barons and archviles as being in their own tier personally. Barons are just incredibly difficult to kill when they make use of items. Full healing, phasing, red armor wearing barons are a nightmare. Archviles are there for the obvious reasons. Mancubus and Revenants aren't nearly as troublesome, since they're harmless in melee range and not especially fast or durable. Arachnotrons are also nearly harmless in melee range, considering the xp and ammo they cough up.

Arch-viles are also rather easy at melee range: the trick is that they're ridiculously fast, so it can be hard to keep them at the proper distance. Mancubi and Revenants, like Arch-viles, are difficult because of their devastating attacks from a distance. Considering a Mancubus in particular has the capacity to kill a player in a single volley, it's not surprising that I place them so high.

The fact that Barons can use items is more an annoyance than it is a game-changer. This is only really important early on, too, where formers and HKs are far more common.

Don't the barons also destroy armor faster with their attack?

That only depends on the amount of damage they deal. If you mean the original game, it's the same case there anyway.

Rev's are missing their powerful "rocket" punch. Try to get punched on Doom 2 and you'll see what I mean. Mancubi don't have splash damage on Doom 2 but without it they would become relatively harmless in DoomRL.

The big three (Rev/Mancu/Vile) lack melee attacks in DoomRL. Supposedly they used to, but I have yet to ever take damage from one, even when cornered. If Revs were to have their old punch, I imagine they'd probably try to close the distance if near the player enough and forget about projectiles (which could possibly be a nice tactic against them).

[Fanta Hege]

The big three (Rev/Mancu/Vile) lack melee attacks in DoomRL. Supposedly they used to, but I have yet to ever take damage from one, even when cornered. If Revs were to have their old punch, I imagine they'd probably try to close the distance if near the player enough and forget about projectiles (which could possibly be a nice tactic against them).

Mancubi, Revenants and Viles did have those in one of the earlier versions.
But they were removed because, they really did act like that if I recall correctly.

Honestly I wouldn't mind of Revenants had their punch back, but it doesn't really matter for Vile and Mancubi as they didn't have them in the original game. Revenant punch would be hard to make work correctly without giving back the advantage of them forgetting the projectile.

When it comes to monsters, I'd personaly think Imps should have their accuracy reduced tiny bit. I also find them to be bit of a medium monsters, just because of their sheer numbers, the splash damage and their damn sniper like accuracy.

I also personaly find Pain elementals to be a joke. Sure they act like they are suppoused, no argument about that, but they don't really cause any actualy threat in 95% of the games. They are so fragile, and the fact that the lost souls spawn right next to them make them all very easy to take down as a group. I'd say pain elemental should shoot one of the lost souls just like in the original game towards the marine, and should probably have more health aswell. Only game I ever had problem with pain elemental was when I ran into a cavern of them on AoMR and even that was situational.

[Game Hunter]

Honestly I wouldn't mind of Revenants had their punch back, but it doesn't really matter for Vile and Mancubi as they didn't have them in the original game. Revenant punch would be hard to make work correctly without giving back the advantage of them forgetting the projectile.

Those enemies could just use their normal attack at melee range (trust me on that one). Because splash is a concern (and because AoB would just be stupid-hard at that point) we can't use that, and yet there are plenty of other enemies that are given melee when adjacent (all formers, for instance). Rev AI would be fine with the "melee when within a few tiles" but Viles and Mancubi should only use it when the player becomes adjacent, as with formers.

When it comes to monsters, I'd personaly think Imps should have their accuracy reduced tiny bit. I also find them to be bit of a medium monsters, just because of their sheer numbers, the splash damage and their damn sniper like accuracy.

True, but they can't compete with Cacos/HKs. They're only problematic early on, something untrue of Sergeants, who can still deal significant damage later in the game (and Captains for higher difficulties). Imps aren't very reliable when it comes to attacking at all times, either, so I have no problems.

I also personaly find Pain elementals to be a joke. Sure they act like they are suppoused, no argument about that, but they don't really cause any actualy threat in 95% of the games. They are so fragile, and the fact that the lost souls spawn right next to them make them all very easy to take down as a group. I'd say pain elemental should shoot one of the lost souls just like in the original game towards the marine, and should probably have more health aswell. Only game I ever had problem with pain elemental was when I ran into a cavern of them on AoMR and even that was situational.

I don't suppose it would be possible to give them an attack whose projectile is a Lost Soul? This is how it's done in the original, and it would (at the very least) distract the player from killing the PE. Then, giving it the typical chance of attacking (which is like, all the time) would ensure that it produces plenty of them.

[Stormlock]

The fact that Barons can use items is more an annoyance than it is a game-changer. This is only really important early on, too, where formers and HKs are far more common.

I have to disagree here. Formers with medpacks don't matter that much, since you can take them down in a single shotgun blast. On the other hand, if you're relying on low damage weaponry like pistols or a shotgun to take out a baron, they'll definitely get to use every item at their disposal. It's largely luck based, but in my last AoS game I splattered a former who dropped TWO large medkits and some armor. If it'd been a baron instead, I'd have probably died trying to kill him. I've also noticed enemies can pick up unique armor as well. A Baron with Cyber armor is no joke. A Baron with Cyber Armor and 2 medpacks is like running into the Cyberdemon several levels early. (Well, less hp, but damage is about the same, since he doesn't stop to reload, and more armor until you burn it off him.)

It's true they're not a problem if you have some decked out plasma rifle ammochain build, but if you aren't, and you're trying to take them out 10 damage at a time while they fling fireballs at you and other enemies are closing in from elsewhere, the difference between a 5 turn fight and a 15 turn fight is life or death. And there's no way to know if they have armor or items on them until they use them.

[Game Hunter]

My general tactic against Barons, if the floor has gone on long enough, is to assume they have some kind of item on them. Med-packs are going to mean that you don't want it reaching "(almost dead)" or around there, which is when they use larges (smalls aren't worth worrying about). Armor doesn't matter TOO much, especially because it often slows them down enough to offset the DR (furthermore, it's easy to tell when they do and can switch weapons for it). Phases and homing phases...yeah, that'll suck, but those items are luxury more often than not as it is.

When it comes to weapons, there are plenty of possibilities. Rapid-fire is plasma, which is obvious. Shottymen have the double, which is almost always enough to close the large med-pack gap (and half of the time it's an MAD build...MFa should understand well enough that running is oft-used) provided you time the attack right. Pistols are only a concern against armor-whores, as they have the firing rate to compensate for low single-volley damage. For any game, there's the rocket launcher for high burst.

Games that will see the most impact are AoMr/AoSg (depending on build) and AoPu. In a standard game, I stand by my previous assertion: it's only in the absolute worst of cases where you find yourself forced to kill a nigh-invincible item Baron, and not nearly enough to dread.