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Author Topic: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.  (Read 4472 times)

C4Cypher

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I'm a bit in awe ... I have yet to die in Hurt me plenty.  I don't know what to say but...
In this run, I found the Butcher's Cleaver and the Jackhammer ... in addition to everything else you'll see in the mortem.  I'd have to say that the highlight of this run was getting my Brick Silver Badge, with the Jackal.


Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the baron of hell. The baron of   
 hell dies. Peace comes back to this evil place.                               
                          ############                                         
                     ######..........####################### ################# 
                    ......%....@.............................................# 
                    .....%...................................................# 
                    ...........#####.........................................# 
                     .........##   #.........................................# 
                     .........#    #.........................................# 
                      .......##    #.........................................# 
                      ....%..      #.........................................# 
                       .....#      #.........................................# 
                        ....       #.........................................   
                          ..       #........................................   
                                   #.......................................     
                                   #......................................     
                                   #...............................>......     
                                   #.....................................       
                                   #.....................................       
                                    ....................................       
                                      ##################################       
                                                                               
 C4Cypher                   Armor : blue armor [1/2] (13%)                     
 Health: 76%  Exp:  7/63%   Weapon: Anti-Freak Jackal (5d3) [4/6]               
 running                                                     The Wall           


I can't say that skill got me this run. I'm still trying to sort out my own head. Near the end I just started burning homing phases just to skip past the last few levels to get to Phobos arena. I can't explain this.

I'm afraid.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.1) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 C4Cypher, level 10 Cacodemon Sergeant Major, defeated the Cyberdemon
 on level 25 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 98041 turns and scored 138904 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 29 minutes and 30 seconds.
 He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.

 He killed 576 out of 709 hellspawn. (81%)
 He was an Angel of Marksmanship!


-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Grammaton Cleric Cross
  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Aurora Medallion
  Hell Champion Medal
  Brick Silver Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #..........................................................
  #..........................................................
  #..........................................................
  #.........................................###..............
  #......###................................###.............#
  #......###................|.......###.....###.............#
  #......###..........X.....||}.....###...........###.......#
  #.........................###.....###...........###........
  #.........................###...................###........
  #.........................###........................###...
  #....................................................###...
  #...........................................###......###...
  #...................###.....................###............
  #.....###...........###.....................###............
  #.....###..###......###................................###.
  #.....###..###.........................................#>#.
  #..........###.........................................###.
  #..........................................................
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 32/50   Experience 45233/10
  ToHit Ranged +2  ToHit Melee +2  ToDmg Ranged +1  ToDmg Melee +1

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 1)
    Son of a gun     (Level 3)
    Eagle Eye        (Level 1)
    Dualgunner       (Level 1)
    Whizkid          (Level 2)

  SoG->SoG->SoG->DG->EE->Fin->Fin->WK->WK->SoB->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   modified red armor [4] (AOT)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   Anti-Freak Jackal (5d3) [3/6]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   modified protective boots [2/2] (100%) (AT)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   Grammaton Cleric Beretta (1d7)x6 [0/18]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] modified pistol (2d6) [13/13] (B3P2)
    [b] modified pistol (2d6) [9/10] (B2P2)
    [c] Necroarmor [6/6] (100%)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x90)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [j] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [k] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [l] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [m] 10mm ammo (x140)
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] Hell Staff

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    77 former humans
    76 former sergeants
    37 former captains
    129 imps
    37 demons
    99 lost souls
    21 cacodemons
    25 barons of hell
    1 Cyberdemon
    17 hell knights
    30 arachnotrons
    3 former commandos
    8 pain elementals
    4 arch-viles
    3 mancubi
    7 revenants
    2 bruiser brothers

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 3 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 10 he found Hell's Armory.
  On level 11 he found the Anti-Freak Jackal!
  On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
  He massacred the evil behind the Wall!
  On level 12 he found the Necroarmor!
  On level 13 he found the Onyx Armor Pack!
  On level 14 he found the Grammaton Cleric Beretta!
  On level 15 he encoutered the Phobos Hellgate.
  On level 16 he found the Hell Staff!
  On level 22 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
  He managed to escape from the Mortuary!
  On level 23 he entered the Lava Pits.
  He decided it was too hot there.
  Then at last he found Phobos Arena!
  On level 25 he finally defeated the Cyberdemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 hits the Cyberdemon.
 You use a homing phase device. You feel yanked in an non-existing direction!
 You dualreload your guns!
 You swap your weapon.
 You switch to full auto mode.
 You swap your weapon.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile
 hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile
 hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the
 Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile
 hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile
 hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile
 hits the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon dies. You feel relatively safe

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 99 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 70 of those were killed.
 And 11 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 18 souls claim to have killed him...
 2 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 14 killed the bastard and survived.
 2 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 19:08 »

...

...............seven uniques.

You found SEVEN UNIQUES in a single run.

...

That's really all there is to say on the matter.

Also, I really wish I had Brick Silver, must've tried for it at least twenty times now.
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thelaptop

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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 19:58 »

Aww Game Hunter, you sound almost...

Jealous.

C4Cypher: Way to go man!  Now try UV!  Or go for more badge hunting.  ;-)
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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 20:18 »

Aww Game Hunter, you sound almost...

Jealous.
I'm not so much jealous of the Brick Silver badge as I am extremely irritated that the game has managed to screw me over every time I've had a good chance to succeed. In cases where I was practically guaranteed victory, the level decided not to generate: I swear, it's like it's teasing me.

I AM, however, jealous of seven uniques in one run. Or maybe just in awe. Normally it'd be a waste on AoMr (because there are only 8/16 uniques you can actually use), except he also managed a mod pack, an armor, and the Hell Staff as well as two of the three unique pistols. Not only did he get seven uniques, the uniques he gained were more usable than not, meaning he had a statistical unlikelihood in getting those uniques on TOP of the chance for uniques to even spawn. It's just boggling that that can actually happen. I don't suppose there are any exotics we should be factoring in?

On the other hand, I'm a little superstitious when it comes to odds like that, probabilistic karma an' all. With a run like that, I'd expect a string of bad finds for a looooong time.

And yet, in spite of everything, you didn't even do the Halls of Carnage. Oh, and if I were you, I would have picked up the other uniques anyway, if only to show for the record that they spawned.
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Fanta Hege

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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 20:25 »

..Holy crap! 7 uniques, 2 which were perfect for your run, 4 that are basicly GODLY to have. 

You sir are the luckiest player I've seen so far.
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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 20:27 »

It's all in the name, Game Hunter.  Without looking at the sources, I seem to detect a correlation between luck and the names used for the Doomguy in the game.

That was why I started to give up on coming up with names, because it'd make all the mortems look really boring when the same guy keeps dying...
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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 23:03 »

Only 2 questions:

1. Why can't I ever have luck like that?

2. Why didn't you clear the Mortuary?
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C4Cypher

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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 07:28 »

Only 2 questions:

1. Why can't I ever have luck like that?

2. Why didn't you clear the Mortuary?

My only answer:

On the other hand, I'm a little superstitious when it comes to odds like that, probabilistic karma an' all. With a run like that, I'd expect a string of bad finds for a looooong time.

This run scared me shitless ... When I entered the mortuary, it spawned three Viles within 'fwoom!' range ... I decided to port and run, I did not want to tempt fate.

Simiarly, later, about level 23, I started to fight a vile pack that started to really shred me. Due to my firing speed and lack of defense, it was either stand and shoot, or homing phase.  I took the latter option.

The lesson I learned here is that the only adaquate way to use the Beretta is to stock up on ammo (especially considering I had the backpack) ... I had EE2 ... I did NOT use burst and auto nearly enough to make the most of that pistol, considering it would stack SoG+SoB bonus damage per shot. Had I been doing that from the beginning, I would have been dealing MUCH more damage, even without the Jackal.  If I ever get the Beretta again (which I seem to do a lot) ... I'll keep this in mind.

Before I try for UV ... I'm facing the prospect of a Hat Trick on HMP ... I've yet to die on that difficulty, with two wins, an outcome I did NOT expect.  Before I unlocked Ao100 ... I had been much more agressive at attempting to clear levels, often suicidally.  Ao100 will teach you a lot, both in fighting to conserve, survive, and combat Viles ... almost on a constant basis. I think this alone was the crucible that is helping me to prepare for more difficult challenges, as I know that harder difficulties will be throwing a lot of very ugly stuff at me from earlier on. My closest point to dying came in the Arena ... I almost underestimated the fact that the last round spawned hell-knights rather than tomatoes, I barely survived it, but ended up with the medkits, and one of many power mods.

Another lesson learned is that unless you have invuln and a Nuke, you should NEVER underestimate the Cyberdemon, that fight was closer than I anticipated, and when I finally got a clue and kicked the Beretta into full auto.

I went full Dualgunner power build for this, but I'm finding my Desperado build to be surprisingly effective (my first HMP run).  I'm wondering if other people trying it would find it similarly useful, as it depends on using juggler to swap out a lot of normal weapons very quickly, and making the pistol powerful late-game, rather than early game. Admittedly that won't work on AoMr ... but I think that, especially without Dualgunner, it's a first step in preparing for an AoMr Diamond build.

I'm still trying to learn how to effectively fight Vile packs ... harder difficulty levels present a lot more of them, forcing you to conserve your heavy ordinance more for them. With AoMr it's especially challenging, as you can only focus fire one mob at a time, a loosing game if you've got multiple Viles, Mancubi, Revs and or/Baron's slamming you at once.  I think that taking SoG+TaN might be a start.  Many of my builds focus more on firepower than survivability (DM seems to only go so far, unless you're going Fireangel ... considering how much splash damage you're almost guaranteed to take. in certain enclosed situations, and even in the open, one of those enemies is going to get lucky) ... TaN, Badass and Ironman may give a little tank to balance the damage output, especially if you can use the pistol's speed (despite the lack of SoB for that extra push).

One challenge I'm finding is that full SoB+SoG has a lot of knockback, which can be useful in some cases, but oftentimes pushes a target out of range before you can effectively kill your target, a dangerous game if you're firing speed greatly outstrips your movement speed, every step you take opens you up to a lot more incoming fire than standing and firing. If I knock an enemy out of range, I've learned to dance (hop back and forth, parrelel to the enemy until he gets in range), hoping to get a sidestep.

Despite the RNG's generosity, I am still learning I lot I still need to learn before I can be truly effective, both in builds, AI, corner tricks and enemy behavior.

That run blew me away ... I needed a ciggarete after it ... I just regret the fact that I lacked the knowledge and the testicular fortitude required to really make the most of the incredible wealth of firepower and utility I was gifted with.

Sidenote: I'm absentminded, and the Necroarmor is a pain in the ass to properly manage without it sucking my HP massively.  HP is something I've learned to hoard religiously, saving Medkits as a last resort, hunting for orbs AWAY from the growls of the enemy. Yes, finding excess health is a great way to regenerate the Necroarmor, but I'm getting sick of getting it when I lack the presence of mind to use it effectively (see my screenshot posted of me venting my frustration on that damn armor ... with an invuln and a nuke ... )

I recognize that my string of  Lu*candleja* has really outstripped my natural experince/ability with this game, and I'm doing my best to learn from it while it lasts.

I want to try for my Hat trick on HMP, and then I'll go back to Ao100 runs on M.  They're hard, but they're fun, especially with the wealth of stuff you find, the lack of limited traits you get with shorter games (allowing for really fun extended builds) ... and just plain freak out factor after level 25.  Does M Ao100 approach the insanity that you find on normal UV and N! runs?
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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 08:24 »

The lesson I learned here is that the only adaquate way to use the Beretta is to stock up on ammo (especially considering I had the backpack) ... I had EE2 ... I did NOT use burst and auto nearly enough to make the most of that pistol, considering it would stack SoG+SoB bonus damage per shot. Had I been doing that from the beginning, I would have been dealing MUCH more damage, even without the Jackal.  If I ever get the Beretta again (which I seem to do a lot) ... I'll keep this in mind.
Ammo is a concern in pistol runs (all the more reason to stock up early) and, of all the special pistols, the Grammaton is the most needy. Most people use the semi-auto to best synergize with a second weapon (six rounds for each) but I find that the single-shot's 2d6 is handy enough in situations that lack intensity. Frankly, my pistol preference goes Trigun -> blaster -> Grammaton -> Jackal. Trigun is just...so broken, man, you don't even know.

Another lesson learned is that unless you have invuln and a Nuke, you should NEVER underestimate the Cyberdemon, that fight was closer than I anticipated, and when I finally got a clue and kicked the Beretta into full auto.
Can't say I've ever really had tactical problems with Cybie (my only loss in the Phobos Arena was due to lack of ammo), even with a high-offense (or, as you call it, Desperado) pistol build. With the exception of a bad spawning point (and the reason you should try to save a phase for the big man when you couldn't get a nuke), there are more than enough pillars to run around and find cover. UV and N! just make things take a lot longer.

I went full Dualgunner power build for this, but I'm finding my Desperado build to be surprisingly effective (my first HMP run).  I'm wondering if other people trying it would find it similarly useful, as it depends on using juggler to swap out a lot of normal weapons very quickly, and making the pistol powerful late-game, rather than early game. Admittedly that won't work on AoMr ... but I think that, especially without Dualgunner, it's a first step in preparing for an AoMr Diamond build.
I've been toying around with single-pistol runs for fun, although it's usually just a matter of SoGx3, EE, and SoBx3 first for sick damage. Fin->WK comes in due time, I suppose, and Jug could turn out useful enough. Disregarding DG has only limited benefits, and the biggest one is ammo conservation. The real issue is finding a build that is important enough that you can't spend one point into DG.

I'm still trying to learn how to effectively fight Vile packs...
Ah yes, everyone hopes to figure out a sure-fire method. Unfortunately, Arch-viles force you into a battle of attrition. Their attacks are far too often and damaging to approach them, not to mention whoever they accompany, which leaves you with blind shots across the level or around a corner until you hear that death cry. Each time, you check for revival or whatever: if none, clear out the rest; if so, return to cover and repeat.  The best attacks are explosive or spread, so you can maximize your odds of hurting the Viles, but with pistols you often have to move your shot around until you hear the right scream.

There's no guaranteed way around it, short of literally avoiding the packs. Adjusting yourself to the situation (barrels, lava, walls, doors) and understanding what to do with given conditions will come with experience. Technically it CAN be taught (or at least shown), but it's so compounded that you're probably better off learning it as you go.

One challenge I'm finding is that full SoB+SoG has a lot of knockback, which can be useful in some cases, but oftentimes pushes a target out of range before you can effectively kill your target, a dangerous game if you're firing speed greatly outstrips your movement speed, every step you take opens you up to a lot more incoming fire than standing and firing. If I knock an enemy out of range, I've learned to dance (hop back and forth, parrelel to the enemy until he gets in range), hoping to get a sidestep.
Learn to shoot beyond your vision. It can waste a few bullets, but keeping the enemy so far at bay that they can't even see you is priceless. Also, using two pistols when you have a lot of knockback can make the second shot miss pretty often unless you're aiming properly.

Does M Ao100 approach the insanity that you find on normal UV and N! runs?
My guide explains it pretty thoroughly. In short, you get a few new enemies to deal with over time, and the number of enemies (and their overall challenge rating) increases. Still, it's practically nothing when compared to UV/N! in terms of accuracy and speed boosts.
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C4Cypher

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Re: [H|AoMr|81%|25|YAVP] I didn't win this ... the RNG Gave it to me.
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 09:23 »

To clarify, when I used a power pistol build on this run (Sog->Dg->Sob).

When I refer to a Desperado build, I'm thinking of something weird that I cooked up (a lot of ranting about it on my Wiki userpage).

Fin->Jug->Sob->Sob->Sob->SoG->SoG->EE->SoG

Or, for AoMr, what I call a Gunslinger build:

Fin->Jug->SoG->SoG->SoG->EE->SoB->SoB->SoB

Insert Fin->Wiz as necessary.

I've enjoyed playing with both, working out the kinks, but they're weird builds, the former VERY versitile in normal play.
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