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Author Topic: [U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.  (Read 4283 times)

Matandun

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[U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.
« on: November 26, 2010, 15:54 »

During the development of my career as a Doomguy I've decided to beat every "Angel of" on every difficulty level. Until now my goal was to finish AoSg on U, because it was rewarded with a gold badge. I had many attempts to achieve this, and I've learnt a lot of thing during it. Here's the mortem:

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.1) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Mat, level 11 Arch-Vile Colonel, defeated the Cyberdemon
 on level 25 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 85815 turns and scored 216786 points.
 He played for 1 hour, 34 minutes and 10 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 678 out of 832 hellspawn. (81%)
 He was an Angel of Shotgunnery!


-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Hell Champion Medal
  Shottyman Gold Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...................###.....................................
  ..###..............###....###..............................
  ..###.....###......###....###..............................
  ..###.....###.............###..............................
  ..........###..............................................
  ....................##...............................###...
  ....................##.....................##........###...
  ....................##........X.............#...#.#..###...
  ............................|..............................
  .............................}#..................##........
  ............................###............................
  ..............###...........###........###.................
  ..............###......................###.................
  ..............###......................###.................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 50/50   Experience 57478/11
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Juggler          (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Whizkid          (Level 1)
    Shottyman        (Level 1)
    Fireangel        (Level 1)

  Rel->Rel->SM->HR->HR->DM->MFa->Fin->Jug->Fin->WK->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   modified phaseshift armor [2/2] (200%) (AB)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   modified double shotgun (8d3)x3 [0/2] (T1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   modified plasteel boots [4/4] (88%) (A)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   modified combat shotgun (7d3) [5/5] (T1)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] modified onyx armor [4] (P)
    [b] Necroarmor [6/6] (100%)
    [c] shotgun shell (x30)
    [d] shotgun shell (x50)
    [e] large med-pack
    [f] large med-pack
    [g] phase device
    [h] phase device
    [i] phase device
    [j] bulk mod pack

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    77 former humans
    75 former sergeants
    30 former captains
    146 imps
    90 demons
    99 lost souls
    36 cacodemons
    26 barons of hell
    1 Cyberdemon
    25 hell knights
    15 arachnotrons
    11 former commandos
    8 pain elementals
    17 arch-viles
    12 mancubi
    9 revenants
    1 nightmare imp

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 3 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 6 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 12 he witnessed the Wall.
  Not knowing what to do, he left.
  On level 13 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 15 he encoutered the Phobos Hellgate.
  On level 20 he entered the Vaults.
  He came, he saw, but he left.
  On level 22 he found the Necroarmor!
  Then at last he found Phobos Arena!
  On level 25 he finally defeated the Cyberdemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Fire -- Choose target... 
 The Cyberdemon fires! You dodge! You hear an explosion!
 Fire -- Choose target... 
 The Cyberdemon reloads his rocket launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target... 
 Fire -- Choose target...   The Cyberdemon fires! You are hit!
 Fire -- Choose target...   The Cyberdemon reloads his rocket launcher.
 The Cyberdemon fires! You dodge! You hear an explosion!
 Fire -- Choose target... 
 The Cyberdemon reloads his rocket launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target... 
 The Cyberdemon fires! You dodge! You hear an explosion!
 Fire -- Choose target... 
 The Cyberdemon reloads his rocket launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target...   The Cyberdemon dies. You feel relatively safe

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 650 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 551 of those were killed.
 7 of those were killed by something unknown.
 24 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 31 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 37 souls claim to have killed him...
 12 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 24 killed the bastard and survived.
 1 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Notice 1 nightmare imp, which I killed on 24'th floor. So here are some of the things which I've learnt:
- if you're going for shotgun build, go for Fireangel instead of Army of the Dead. Really, it is far more better, actually this is my favourite build at the moment, since I got bored with Ammochain. Just try it and I promise, you won't be dissapointed. At first, I tried to beat this challenge with MAD, but after many failed attempts I've decided to read Badges Guide and there I've read about MFa. And it worked! Thanks, Game Hunter!
- I believe that putting tech mods on shotguns is the best option
- during this challenge, your only goal is actually to get to level 7, get MFa or MAD and then only run to the stairs. Don't try to clear every level, it's too dangerous, especially on Phobos Hell
- if you're corner shooting with combat shotty and failing to hit monsters you see because of the "weird bullet flight path bug", swich your weapon to double shotgun. It will work.
And two most important things, I'll probably never learn:
- YOU DON'T NEED TO KILL EVERY SINGLE MONSTER DURING THE RUN
- THIS IS A TURN BASED GAME - you won't be playing better if you'll be tapping your keyboard at full speed. Stay calm and think!
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0.9.9.1: [19/19/13/4/0]
0.9.9.2: [22/20/11/2/1], assemblies [10/2/0]
0.9.9.3: [25/16/10/1/0], assemblies [13/4/0]
0.9.9.4: [25/18/12/1/1], assemblies [18/7/1]

Fanta Hege

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Re: [U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 16:41 »

Quote
During the development of my career as a Doomguy I've decided to beat every "Angel of" on every difficulty level.

Angel of Purity N! will feed on your tears.

Quote
- if you're going for shotgun build, go for Fireangel instead of Army of the Dead. Really, it is far more better, actually this is my favourite build at the moment, since I got bored with Ammochain. Just try it and I promise, you won't be dissapointed. At first, I tried to beat this challenge with MAD, but after many failed attempts I've decided to read Badges Guide and there I've read about MFa. And it worked! Thanks, Game Hunter!

Situational actually. But it mostly depends on your gear and game style which gives you more of an edge. If you're agressive and know your covers, MAD would've sufficied well enough. But seemingly you weren't really that agressive seemingly MFA still does great for getting out of nasty situations.

Quote
- I believe that putting tech mods on shotguns is the best option

Power man. Power. This ain't no rapid fire.


Very good run though. Got to say, the amount of speed you had going there is just amazing. I wonder if you ever got hit at all.
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Kg

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Re: [U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2010, 17:15 »

Yea, or Angel of Masochism on N!
Anyway MFa is nice for Cyberdemon since you don't get damage from him at all (But with DM you wouldn't get it anyway) since he knocks you back before applying damage (though it doesn't always work iirc)? I'd get it just for easier dealing with Revenants - they just kick your ass hard..
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Re: [U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 22:31 »

if you're going for shotgun build, go for Fireangel instead of Army of the Dead. Really, it is far more better, actually this is my favourite build at the moment, since I got bored with Ammochain. Just try it and I promise, you won't be dissapointed. At first, I tried to beat this challenge with MAD, but after many failed attempts I've decided to read Badges Guide and there I've read about MFa. And it worked! Thanks, Game Hunter!
Glad to be of assistance.

My take on MAD vs. MFa is as follows (and it's probably . If you're planning on a YAAM, or you're a player who likes killing at range and out of enemy sight, you take MAD for its armor-piercing shells. If you just want to speed through or simply finish the game, or prefer to come toe-to-toe with your enemies and run across the expanses without too much trouble, you take MFa for its splash negation. They are clearly offensive and defensive counterparts, by merit of their benefits. However, MFa is the safer option, both for Hell and for Cybie, and so I recommend it if you're going for...pretty much all Shotties but the Diamond. This is not to say that MAD is a lot harder, it just requires a more patient approach: in addition, there are more ways to get screwed over. The bonus is that MAD pays off with far higher kill-rates.

Don't hold me to this, but I've found MFa to be the most likely way to win most standard games as well, especially on N!. The splash negation is unbelievably handy, and the only cost is limiting your weapons to shotguns and explosives. Unless you're gung-ho about rapid-fire and/or pistols, you can get a lot done with the rest.

I believe that putting tech mods on shotguns is the best option
Power man. Power. This ain't no rapid fire.
I like tech mods on my doubles. This is a personal preference based on the use of doubles at point-blank, when avoiding retaliation is important. But yeah, every other shotgun (normal, combat, assault, plasma) requires power, as the difference in damage at range is simply amazing. With MFa, there's a big incentive to continue on to Fin -> WK, just to build up your combat shotgun to a potential 10d3. It's just AWESOME.

during this challenge, your only goal is actually to get to level 7, get MFa or MAD and then only run to the stairs. Don't try to clear every level, it's too dangerous, especially on Phobos Hell
MAD makes Hell easier to clear, MFa makes Hell easier to run. Although I've basically gone over this above, so I won't comment more.

if you're corner shooting with combat shotty and failing to hit monsters you see because of the "weird bullet flight path bug", swich your weapon to double shotgun. It will work.
The shotty spreads are awkward. I'm really hoping that they're consistent when it comes to shots around corners with the bullet pathing fix. At a close range, doubles can get around corners where combats cannot. This is also a good way to waste a lot of shells, however, and so it is situational at best (hurting some big bad enough to lure them closer, for instance).

And two most important things, I'll probably never learn:
- YOU DON'T NEED TO KILL EVERY SINGLE MONSTER DURING THE RUN
- THIS IS A TURN BASED GAME - you won't be playing better if you'll be tapping your keyboard at full speed. Stay calm and think!
This is probably the kind of thing I should emphasize in my guide...if it were meant to be all-inclusive. However, as it's supposed to be a guide that just explains the facts of the situation and what to do, and not one that teaches you how to play the game (see UAC Bronze, heh), I've decided to mostly leave out these kinds of lessons. That's the sort of thing for Thomas's guide, and I believe he conveys this rather well.

And yes, AoPu and AoMs N! are both pretty nasty, to the point where I really don't want to do them. Hard to say what's worse, not getting double health NOR double duration but still med-packs, or no double health at all. I think I'd sooner try AoMs N!, if only because the Berserk/Invulnerability feels that important.

UV AoSg is pretty rough, congratulations are in order. Best of luck to you on your angel-completion challenge.
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rchandra

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Re: [U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 23:39 »

Don't hold me to this, but I've found MFa to be the most likely way to win most standard games as well, especially on N!. The splash negation is unbelievably handy, and the only cost is limiting your weapons to shotguns and explosives. Unless you're gung-ho about rapid-fire and/or pistols, you can get a lot done with the rest.

this is why I find the requirements/blocks for MFa really annoying - it seems like a generic trait forced into being shotgunners.  What were the old ones?
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Re: [U|AoSg|81%|YAVP] MFa > MAD. Period.
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 00:14 »

Here's the rundown of the 0.9.9 Fireangel:

Requirements: Ironman (1), Juggler (1), Badass (1) (Finx1 and TaNx2 as prerequisites)
Blocks: Hellrunner, Son of a Bitch, Son of a Gun

So...you were still pretty limited. Of course, back then there was also only one "shotty" build (Army of the Dead) and this actually brought about an alternative method of using shotguns via Juggler. Additionally, it was the ideal Pacifism Diamond build because it already had Ironman and TaN/Bad in there.

There are enough builds for pistol/rapid-fire, each of which already require a boatload of traits by themselves to really kick in properly. It's hard to make a defense-oriented character when using weapons that require precise aim and good DPS.
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