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Author Topic: Quick questions thread!  (Read 453084 times)

Xtremekiwi

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #525 on: July 01, 2012, 14:21 »

Quick question: At what point does it become more practical to kill, say, hell knights and barons of hell with a pistol over a shotgun when you're going for a pistol build? Because I want to try and get a Sharpshooter build going for a UV Ao100 run. Or maybe I should focus on a Shottyhead build...
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IronBeer

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #526 on: July 01, 2012, 17:06 »

Quick question: At what point does it become more practical to kill, say, hell knights and barons of hell with a pistol over a shotgun when you're going for a pistol build? Because I want to try and get a Sharpshooter build going for a UV Ao100 run. Or maybe I should focus on a Shottyhead build...
Quick answer, I'd say at the minimum once you have DG. For a single-gun build.... probably around when you get SoG3. (DG≈SoG3 in DPS). That's just a quick-'n-dirty answer, though; I'm sure somebody around here can come up with a MUCH more detailed (and accurate) answer in no time.
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AlterAsc

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #527 on: July 01, 2012, 22:53 »

When you feel comfortable to do so.You can kill HK without losses with SoG3 and EEx, but there's no point in trying to kill a baron with a basic pistol.It's way too bothersome.Personally i don't know any good way to do it right (i wish i knew because that would make 3rd round of HA much easier).
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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #528 on: July 05, 2012, 10:31 »

Once you cross the point where you can kill them more efficiently with a pistol than a shotgun, that's when you swap. Personally, I've killed them with just a pistol and no pistol traits, but then it's probably more practical to just corner-kite them with a shotgun or pistol, whatever's to your taste.

In my standard progression path, I ditch my shotgun the moment I set up into my main build. For example, in a Ammochain game I stop using my shotgun the moment I get to a chaingun. I'll keep it around as a backup, with one set of shells, until I get my first plasgun. In a Pistol game I ditch my shotgun the moment I get SoG2, which is pretty quick considering that I play on N! almost exclusively.

If you're not completely comfortable with a pistol though, I'd keep your shotty around to deal with high-threat enemies like Pain Elementals. In a Ao100 Pistols game, your main threats are going to be Revs and Pain/Agony Elementals, and if you get a Cyberdemon level it's going to be brutal. Besides boss enemies and revs/pains/agonies, you can trash anything else the game throws at you. Once you have your full pistol build rolling, your time-to-kill should be low enough that you can take out anything shy of a HK in less than .3 sec, and nothing except for revs and pain elementals should take longer than .7 sec, excluding N! enemies of course.


   
         
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Xtremekiwi

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #529 on: July 05, 2012, 15:14 »

Thanks for all of the answers. So it's basically whenever I feel confortable that I can kill faster, but in general it would be around SoG2/SoG3. Thank you for all of the advice. I'll have to experiment a little bit (UV, I am not ready not N!) to find the sweet spot.

And about the Cyberdemon level? I find that if you have a 3d6 pistol (Trigun, P3-modded Combat Pistol), you can generally kill a Cyberdemon in ~15 bullets. So ~8-10 Cyberdemons, get ready to dance rockets pretty much.
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #530 on: August 08, 2012, 13:57 »

Quick (and stupid) question :

What are the differences between reloads? I'm reading the wiki, and it says (as far as I'm understanding it) there's basically Reloading (aka Normal Reload), Single Reload, and Full Reload.

To try and explain what I'm asking, the wiki says that a Full Reload "...will reload the weapon's entire magazine. The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo. For the combat shotgun, the weapon will also be pumped."

Isn't this what regular reloading does anyways (sans the pumping)?

And for Single Reload "...Single reload will reload only a single ammo into the weapon's magazine. This time taken is the same as a normal reload."

Why would you only reload one ammo if it takes the same amount time to do a normal reload?

Unless I'm misunderstanding the line "Some weapons have alternate reload modes" entirely, and it just means that weapons reload differently than one another, but the text seems to imply that some weapons have alternative reload options like how they have alternative modes of fire and you can choose between them.

Lastly, I see "moving reload" mentioned a lot; is this just a result of Shottyman or is there another means of reloading while moving at the same time?

Thanks.



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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #531 on: August 08, 2012, 14:05 »

the wiki says that a Full Reload "...will reload the weapon's entire magazine. The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo. For the combat shotgun, the weapon will also be pumped." Isn't this what regular reloading does anyways (sans the pumping)?

And for Single Reload "...Single reload will reload only a single ammo into the weapon's magazine. This time taken is the same as a normal reload." Why would you only reload one ammo if it takes the same amount time to do a normal reload?
Full reload is identical to continuously reloading the weapon until it's full. (IIRC the extra 0.2s is only included if you need to pump, as one would expect.) It's there for the convenience of easy reloading when you know there isn't going to be something attacking you in between rounds.

The single reload issue is actually a bug. The wiki states the current functionality in order to deter people from using it.

Lastly, I see "moving reload" mentioned a lot; is this just a result of Shottyman or is there another means of reloading while moving at the same time?
Moving reload (or move-reload) is exclusive to Shottyman, at least in the sense of literal reloads: some equipped or prepared weapons will regenerate their ammo as long as you aren't shooting, which technically allows for the weapon to reload while you're moving, but is typically not the same context for which move-reload is used.
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #532 on: August 08, 2012, 14:17 »

That was fast!

So do some weapons actually have multiple reload choices? I know that single reload is bugged right now, but what is it normally supposed to do, let you reload one round at a greatly reduced speed than normal reloading?

Also, if a weapon does have multiple reload modes, do you switch them the same as firing (ie r vs shift+r)?

Thanks!
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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #533 on: August 08, 2012, 14:45 »

So do some weapons actually have multiple reload choices?
Combat shotguns and their derivatives (assault shotgun, tactical shotgun, etc) have a "full reload". Double shotguns (and maybe their dervatives such as super shotgun and focused double shotgun) have a "single reload". Alternate reloads are accessed with the alt reload keybinding, default "R" (in contrast to the default reload "r"), so you're correct on that matter.

I know that single reload is bugged right now, but what is it normally supposed to do, let you reload one round at a greatly reduced speed than normal reloading?
Single reload will allow you to reload half of a double shotgun at half the firing time. By itself this sounds a little silly (about as good as the difference between normal and full reload on a combat shotgun, which is only subtly important), but double shotguns also have a "single fire" alternate, allowing them to shoot only one shell at a time. This means you could very well use the double shotdown to attack two separate targets and reload as necessary. Single reload might be a tiny bit more than half to deter a complete need to always use it ("reload spam syndrome"), but it should make the double shotgun type considerably more useful as a whole.
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Motorheadbanger

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #534 on: August 08, 2012, 15:55 »

Single reload will allow you to reload half of a double shotgun at half the firing time.

At half the reloading time, I suppose?
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Klear

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #535 on: August 09, 2012, 02:41 »

In any case, full reload for shotguns (and missile launcher, and perhaps some other weapons) and dual reload for pistols (if you have dualgunner) should NOT be used under any circumstances* since reloading one unit of ammo at a time allows you to react to any monster that wonders by. If you do a full reload, there's often a chance you'll end up dead before it is done. You could use full reloads on a cleared level without danger, but it's really not a good idea to get into the habit at all...

*The length of invulnerability/zerk etc. is measured in actions, not time, and reloading a combat shotgun takes 6 actions (including pumping) while full reload only one, so that is AFAIK the only situation# in which it is advantageous to use the full reload.

#This reminds me that I ought to read House of Leaves again...
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 02:43 by Klear »
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ih8regin

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #536 on: August 09, 2012, 04:18 »

after earning a pitiful death via dual reload, empasizing this :)
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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #537 on: August 09, 2012, 09:47 »

Apparently the most effective way to make use of Dual Reload for pistols is to do a normal reload and then a dual reload to load the second weapon.  That way, if you see some nasty coming to you, you can still do something about it instead of eating the damage.

Also, reloading when a nasty is in view is generally a Bad Idea, especially if said weapon takes "forever" (>0.5s) to reload.
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Reef Blastbody

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #538 on: August 09, 2012, 09:50 »

*The length of invulnerability/zerk etc. is measured in actions, not time, and reloading a combat shotgun takes 6 actions (including pumping) while full reload only one, so that is AFAIK the only situation# in which it is advantageous to use the full reload.

#This reminds me that I ought to read House of Leaves again...

Okay, I think I understand now.

Combat shotgun, for instance. 5 shots, 1 pump. If totally empty, and you hit Full Reload, (which is "...The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo.", I just now realized this means PER SHELL), should take 5.2s, but only counts as one action. During that 5.2s, all manners of beasties could crawl up and bash your brains in. But, as you mentioned, if you were Invul, this would be better because you only lose 1 duration of Invul as opposed to 6 (for a reloading 5 times and pumping 1).

However, still with Combat shotgun, if something is rushing you down, and you were totally empty, you could just reload 1 shell (1s), and pump (0.2) to get ready, but this would cost you 2 durations of Invul. Or, as would likely be the case, you're not invul and you really need to shoot things ASAP.

Is that about right? I had no idea actions and time were counted separately until now.

#Go back, reread House of Leaves, replace all instances of Minotaur with Cyberdermon.
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AlterAsc

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Re: Quick questions thread!
« Reply #539 on: August 09, 2012, 10:03 »

Quote
Or, as would likely be the case, you're not invul and you really need to shoot things ASAP.
Strange example.
If you're out of shells in your CS and it's not pumped, you're not invulnerable and you need to shoot ASAP, then your only choice without Shottyman is to pump (0.2s) and reload 1 shell (1.0s without modifiers) = 1.2s in two actions before first shot.
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