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[ih8regin]

Intuition 2, then don't enter the monster's range on your turn, let them wander into your vicinity instead. I learned this trick watching one of Tormuse's videos when I finally gave up on trying to figure it out myself - even if it ended up as simple as this. That is, maneuver so that the yet-invisible monster would be marked at the very edge of your FOV, both before and after your move, thus if he'd get closer you will have the first chance to act. Doorways and ambushes aside, of course. With doorways, you would need a lure or wait until all enemies (detectable ofc) on the other side of the door are close to the wall with the door so that they won't see you entering the square with the door. With ambushes, I believe your best bet would be using phase devices prior to an ambush or right after it like in City of Skulls.

[iainuki]

Intuition 2, then don't enter the monster's range on your turn, let them wander into your vicinity instead. I learned this trick watching one of Tormuse's videos when I finally gave up on trying to figure it out myself - even if it ended up as simple as this. That is, maneuver so that the yet-invisible monster would be marked at the very edge of your FOV, both before and after your move, thus if he'd get closer you will have the first chance to act. Doorways and ambushes aside, of course. With doorways, you would need a lure or wait until all enemies (detectable ofc) on the other side of the door are close to the wall with the door so that they won't see you entering the square with the door. With ambushes, I believe your best bet would be using phase devices prior to an ambush or right after it like in City of Skulls.

I definitely don't have any trouble doing it with Intuition 2.  (This is why I end up playing so many scouts, and often go Intuition 2 as my first traits.)  I'm trying to figure out how to do without Intuition 2, for all the challenges where I can't have that.

[ih8regin]

I'm trying to figure out how to do without Intuition 2, for all the challenges where I can't have that.

Is there any, besides radar shooting with a shotgun and listening for screams?

[Tormuse]

Also, lots of waiting by doorways or around blind corners such that you can see them coming before they see you.

[iainuki]

Also, lots of waiting by doorways or around blind corners such that you can see them coming before they see you.

On Nightmare, does this demand that you've done perfect corpse disposal beforehand?

[Tormuse]

That would be ideal, but it's not always practical.  When I'm establishing myself at the beginning of a level, I sometimes have to prioritize who I dispose of, and any enemies that I can just one-shot, I kill them where they stand and focus more on getting rid of the corpses of larger enemies, then come back to getting rid of the smaller ones when they revive later.  I'm not saying this is necessarily the ideal strategy or anything, but that's how my Nightmare games usually play out.

[iainuki]

That would be ideal, but it's not always practical.  When I'm establishing myself at the beginning of a level, I sometimes have to prioritize who I dispose of, and any enemies that I can just one-shot, I kill them where they stand and focus more on getting rid of the corpses of larger enemies, then come back to getting rid of the smaller ones when they revive later.  I'm not saying this is necessarily the ideal strategy or anything, but that's how my Nightmare games usually play out.

Another related quick question on Nightmare: spending lots of time waiting speeds up the respawn rate.  Is it just always better to spend time waiting for enemies around blind corners and doing tedious corpse disposal tasks, even though this will speed up respawns?

[iainuki]

I've watched the videos of Tormuse and frozenca/papilio doing Hell Arena on UV/N! with a pistol or melee weapon, but in trying to replicate them, I've completely failed.  When I looked at the mortems, though, they and other people seem to be able to do Hell Arena in AoB/AoMr on UV/N!.  However, every time I try I end up running out of HP and dying.  What's the trick to it?

[iainuki]

In some of Tormuse's mortems for AAoRA, I've seen that that he's visited Hell's Armory at least.  I know how to do Deimos Lab in AAoRA, but I haven't figured out the trick to getting to the important parts of Hell's Armory in time.  What's the trick?

[CrashGordon94]

Anyone got any basic strategy stuff for:

• Angel of Pacifism
• Angel of Red Alert
• Angel of Confidence/Overconfidence

?

These ones aren't covered on the wiki, or I wouldn't bother you guys here.

[Tormuse]

Oh, hey!  Lots of old, unanswered questions here!  :o  I guess no one's been paying attention to these forums in a while.  :|

I've watched the videos of Tormuse and frozenca/papilio doing Hell Arena on UV/N! with a pistol or melee weapon, but in trying to replicate them, I've completely failed.  When I looked at the mortems, though, they and other people seem to be able to do Hell Arena in AoB/AoMr on UV/N!.  However, every time I try I end up running out of HP and dying.  What's the trick to it?

Who the heck did Hell's Arena in AoB Nightmare?  :o  I've only done that once in a previous version of DRL, and it was due to incredible luck.  If anyone figures out how to do that with some level of consistency, I hope they'll share their secret.  :P  (Same goes for UV, though to a lesser degree)

Hell's Arena in AoMr is a lot more manageable, though.  The basic strategy is to corner-shoot the Cacodemons, using the pillars as cover, then (if it's Nightmare) stack the Demon corpses on top of them.  (That goes double for the Barons;  you don't want to face them twice;  in fact, on a few occasions, I would stand on the Baron body to make sure it doesn't respawn until I could be sure I could get a Demon on it;  it might even be worth letting a Cacodemon shoot you while you're standing on it to destroy it, rather than face a respawned Baron)  Once the Cacodemon bodies are all eliminated, the Demons are comparably much easier to deal with.  You might want to consider getting a level of Hellrunner, so you can outwalk the Demons, which helps maneuver them into corpse-stacking positions.

One thing to keep in mind is that no matter how good your strategy is, you have to expect to die a lot.  Behind every one of my victorious mortems, there are a hundred or more dead Doomguys.  If you die, just take it as experience for next time.

In some of Tormuse's mortems for AAoRA, I've seen that that he's visited Hell's Armory at least.  I know how to do Deimos Lab in AAoRA, but I haven't figured out the trick to getting to the important parts of Hell's Armory in time.  What's the trick?

It's been a while since I watched my video of that, but I don't think I got to the "important" parts of Hell's Armory.  I just dipped in there for a bit of extra experience and kills.  Without a lucky phase or liberal rocket-jumping, I don't see how you could do it.

Anyone got any basic strategy stuff for:

• Angel of Pacifism
• Angel of Red Alert
• Angel of Confidence/Overconfidence

?

These ones aren't covered on the wiki, or I wouldn't bother you guys here.

AoPc is a pretty luck-based challenge, but generally, use lots of running and move in a zig-zag pattern to help dodge enemy fire.  (You're more likely to dodge if your path is perpendicular to enemy fire)  This pretty much applies to any DRL game, of course, but especially for AoPc, because your goal is to just get the heck out of there while taking as little damage as possible.

For AoRA, I recommend taking any traits that boost your speed, (getting HR first would be good) and find the exit as soon as possible.  Once you find the exit, remember where it is and try to gauge how many enemies it's safe to kill with your remaining time.  Remember, no kills or equipment are worth dying to the nuke, so exit when you have to.

AoC/AoOC...  really, tactics that work on any other level/challenge just apply extra here.  Be especially mindful of cover and corner-shooting.  One of the nice things about these challenges is that encountering the bigger enemies sooner means you level up faster, so at least you've got that going for you.  :)

[CrashGordon94]

That definitely makes sense, I could see how Hellrunner first would be good. I had been going Intuition first for the sake of seeing where powerups to heal and sometimes maps where but that's obvious a bit chance-y on whether it'd work out.

For Red Alert, I was definitely thinking a Master that would mesh with Hellrunner, like Blademaster, Gun Kata, Fireangel or so on.

For Pacifist, definitely going Masterless, Hellrunner/Dodgermaster, Tough as Nails and Ironman seeming to be solid choices for obvious reasons (plus probably still Intuition.

Also maybe a strange note but for the latter I had a thought of sometimes visiting special levels just since I'd know exactly where the stairs are even without stair-sense.

Confidence/Overconfidence, I was thinking it should be a skill line that "takes off" quickly since there are fewer levels to gain. And not using a Pistol or Melee build (due to how those tend to have a weaker start and in the latter case I can't get the Chainsaw).

[apalapan]

Confidence/Overconfidence, I was thinking it should be a skill line that "takes off" quickly since there are fewer levels to gain. And not using a Pistol or Melee build (due to how those tend to have a weaker start and in the latter case I can't get the Chainsaw).

Melee build can work on AoOverconfidence. You start with Assault Shotty, Minigun, their respective ammo boxes, and a combat knife.
You level up like crazy on Hell 1, enough to at least get Berserker. After that, you can immediately go to Unholy Cathedral, and if you find at least one Red Armor, maybe one bulk or power mod, and can bring plenty of healing items, you can defeat the Angel of Death easily.
Of course you need tons of luck to get the perfect run going, but since this is AoOc, you don't lose much time if you die on Hell 1 or UC.

If you complete UC, you get the Longinus Spear, so you don't need the chainsaw anyways.

And I know that this is all possible, because just today I used AoOc to cheese getting Azrael's Spear (since getting 100% kills this way counts and is almost required anyway). This was done on HMP difficulty.

Hell, while writing this comment, I got a silly idea, one thing lead to another, and I've just completed AoB+AoOC on N!

My point is, Melee is a good choice as any other on AoOC.
________

Here's are my quick question: what's a good approach to complete Ao100/666 with a melee build?

[Tormuse]

Here's are my quick question: what's a good approach to complete Ao100/666 with a melee build?

All the melee builds except Blademaster block Eagle Eye, so you'll probably be relying pretty heavily on your shotgun for the early game until you can level yourself up enough and get enough equipment to switch over to using melee exclusively.  Armour gets shredded a lot in melee, so you'll probably want something indestructible.  Nanofiber red armour will do, which only takes a power mod and a bulk mod, so it's very doable, but something that protects against melee damage like the ballistic vest, duelist armour, or phaseshift suit are even better.  (I suppose gothic armour works too, but that slows you down, which can be deadly in a melee game, where you have to close distance quickly)

For Red Alert, I was definitely thinking a Master that would mesh with Hellrunner, like Blademaster, Gun Kata, Fireangel or so on.

A while back, I got Quartermaster Angelic badge with a Gunrunner build, combined with Shottyman.  Obviously, it took a long time to get going, but basically, I was able to move, fire, and reload at the same time, which was a real time-saver.  :)

For Pacifist, definitely going Masterless, Hellrunner/Dodgermaster, Tough as Nails and Ironman seeming to be solid choices for obvious reasons (plus probably still Intuition.

Another option you might want to consider (if you don't mind making do without Hellrunner) is a Survivalist build.  It helps you tank a lot more damage while also getting more benefit from large med packs.  I did it once in an ArchAngel of Pacifism game, but I would not recommend copying my technique there;  that was an exceptionally lucky game.  :P

[CrashGordon94]

@ Apalapan:

Actually very interesting point with Melee plus AoOC, I'll have to keep that in mind!

Probably won't work AS well with AoCo since your strategy centres around jumping quickly into the Unholy Cathedral.

For there my biggest thing was jumping straight into the special level (HOPEFULLY it's Hell's Amory... But even if not, I'll roll the dice with Deimos Lab because I don't have much to lose at that point), maybe after clearing out the level but if I'm struggling against the enemies I'll "escape" there.

For there I was usually aiming for Scavenger (maybe I can cheese the rare mod to fill out my assembly list... But it's hard to do well in combat with just Eagle Eye) but I might consider Cateye (Intuition is a great early pick and whatever rare mod will absolutely help with a rapid fire build).

@ Tormuse:

Honestly I'd never really given Gunrunner and Survivalist much thought at all.

I can certainly see the benefit of the former for going speedy in general, plus I suppose I can minor in Pistols easily if needed. :P

For th latter, it doesn't sound super impressive in general but yeah, the conditions of Pacifist seem suited to make it have a point. I'm open enough to skipping Hellrunner for it. The thing is, I trust that it's a really good skill but it's one of those where I don't SEE it doing its thing as much as others so I don't feel too bad about the idea of skipping it.

This talk has me wanting to give this all a try again, honestlty. :P