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Author Topic: Shottyman - help me out here.  (Read 2013 times)

Errant

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Shottyman - help me out here.
« on: March 03, 2011, 22:41 »

Now and then, I try a Fireangel build and get reminded of why I tend to use Army of the Dead instead.

As far as I'm aware, the idea is to jink up close to your target and then blast the crap out of them, moving to reload instead of doing it manually, right? So, how do you avoid getting blasted when you actually pull the trigger? Move time isn't a problem, it's the firing time. I know an assault shotgun helps solve that, but it also makes Shottyman kind of redundant as well.

Am I doing something fundamental wrong, or what?
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Game Hunter

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Re: Shottyman - help me out here.
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 22:49 »

If you want not to get hit while firing, try lowering the firing time. The only option here is T-modding whatever weapon (probably your double shotty) you're using out in the open: a good idea after MFa is to head toward Fin->WK so you can maximize this possibility. Alternatively, make sure you're running whenever you have to be in those situations.

Sometimes you can't really afford the firing time problem, however, so what I try to do is knockback the enemies into a wall, then run right up to them and kill 'em that way. If they're already near a wall, just position yourself so that they won't move when you shoot. Doesn't hurt too much on your end and gets the job done pretty quickly. Keep in mind that Fireangel completely eliminates splash damage dealt to you, and that damage source is determined AFTER knockback. This means you shouldn't be getting hurt by R/M rockets as long as you're knocked away as well.
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Thomas

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Re: Shottyman - help me out here.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 23:20 »

This means you shouldn't be getting hurt by R/M rockets as long as you're knocked away as well.

Holy shit, really? So would you suggest going around in high knockback boots/armor all throughout the late game in a fireangel run?

Quick edit: Swapping to red for arachnotron encounters and whatnot, of course.

Not-as-quick edit: Huh, red armour appears to have no knockback resistance anyway...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 23:26 by Thomas »
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Errant

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Re: Shottyman - help me out here.
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 20:50 »

Red armour doesn't, but you might want to check your boots.

Anyway, I took another stab at this using Game hunter's wall-pinning advice and it went much better, but I can't shake the feeling that the amount of perks and peril sunk into this particular build aren't really worth the payoff. On the other hand, it sure is fun, so I think I'll keep experimenting with it.

Also, speaking of traits and stabbing, it seems Whizkid doesn't work on combat knives? Is that a bug?
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Re: Shottyman - help me out here.
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 21:25 »

...I can't shake the feeling that the amount of perks and peril sunk into this particular build aren't really worth the payoff. On the other hand, it sure is fun, so I think I'll keep experimenting with it.
This may come unexpected, but MFa is actually more of a defensive build than an offensive one (that's MAD). Whereas MAD uses what is called tactical offense, which plays the game of hit-without-being-seen, MFa uses active defense, which plays the game of move-without-being-hit. It's a little hard to understand until you reach the point where death comes very quickly to the unprepared. On the easier difficulties, MAD is typically a better shotty build...if you're using ONLY shotties, that is. MFa is a great advanced shotty build because of its active defense capabilities, but also because there's a lot more you can build off of it, such as WK, Iro, or even Badass if you want heavy defense.

(Regarding Thomas's comment, even if the knockback invincibility weren't true, most of the time you'd still dodge the R/M/V attack and only get hit by the splash anyway, thanks to HRx2/DM. The key, then, would be not to run directly toward your opponent and get as much out of sidestepping as possible.)

Also, speaking of traits and stabbing, it seems Whizkid doesn't work on combat knives? Is that a bug?
Melee weapons get the same maximum mod capacity as armor and boots. That is, for 0/1/2 levels of WK you can add 1/2/3 mods (as opposed to 1/3/5 for ranged weapons).
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Sambojin

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Re: Shottyman - help me out here.
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 06:20 »

I've been playing around a fair bit with MFa and it does play a lot differently to MAD. I'm assuming (probably incorrectly) that you're playing AoS or shotgun only runs as you can otherwise just waste the bigger guys with a better weapon.  The boost to HR is nice with the 15% per level dodge chance now (which really adds nicely to running's dodge chance and perfect shotgun accuracy). Really the shottyman trait is just a bonus for MFa, the build really is for the lack of splash damage in it. Which is pretty much the only dangerous thing in the later game.

The new tactical boots are your friend in early game. Whilst they contain anti-knockback (a bad thing), the extra run speed does really help you get into position for shotty blasts and running away from daemons early on. I also find that putting in Fin->Jug--....-->MFa at the start of the MFa chain pretty much makes the build both liveable and very powerful. You can then run-and-gun or become a high-dodge-weapons-platform whenever you need too. Juggler is actually probably a fair bit better than shottyman for AoS runs anyway if you're not going MAD. But then again, I'm of the opinion that juggler is probably a lot better than most traits for most things than a pistol build anyway.

Other than that, just ALWAYS use your diagonals unless you have a very good reason not to, and run diagonally at the enemies if you think you can shotty them out more quickly by doing so. Sometimes it'll help keep your shotgun damage high enough, sometimes not. It's one of the few builds where a tech mod probably is better on a shotgun than a power. Speed is of the essence.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 06:22 by Sambojin »
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