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[LAN fan]

Doom came out long before multiplayer Co-op became popular (or even possible!).  But Doom is the perfect game for co-op!

It might seem strange to have a roguelike co-op, especially since it's turn-based, but it shouldn't be as unwieldy as it sounds.  Especially on a LAN where the players can communicate with each other:

'Wait a moment, I need to check my inventory,' 'Hold it!  Let me move first this turn, I need to get away from this barrel...' (if both players' turns happen to coincide).

The implementation would be simple enough - the game checks to see if it's a player's turn, and if so it pauses until they move, just like it does now.  If two players can move on that turn, it moves in the order it receives the input (relying on the host computer).  A minor change might be required - players should be able to check their inventory even though it's not their 'turn'.

I'm not sure how hard it would be to program, though.  But this would be the first roguelike with a co-op feature, and Doom is the perfect game for it.  :-D

This could start a trend.  ;-)

[jake250]

It would be relatively boring to wait every step the other make. If multiplayer ever make itself in DoomRL, it would need to work an other way.

Note that im realy not against that, I would love playing with my friends (ok, most of my friends think this game is the universe worse creation) but I still would love to play with other in Co-op.

[Glowie]

I think it would be a great idea and not only over LAN but over the whole internet. I have some friends who I have corrupted with DoomRL and I think it wouldn't be too slow if both knew what they are doing. And if the players aren't near each other, they could use any of the instant messengers around. (Or chatting over DoomRL?)

In my opinion the programming part wouldn't be... very fun. It's not too "hard" if one knows what he is doing but programming anything multiplayer/multiuser is (at least for me) a nightmare. So much can go wrong and probably it would need some (huge?) changes to the code. So I think Kornel won't do it, though I'd say "Yay" if he would :)

[LAN fan]

I don't think it would be too tedious, considering how few turns the action takes.  With some communication, it would be easy to coordinate with each other.

Besides, nobody's ever really tried to make co-op for roguelikes before - most people seem to dismiss it offhand.  But it could certainly be playable, and if it picks up, the roguelike community could refine it.  Kind of like making the first ever 3D games with platform, but no vertical aiming.  ;-)

[JimmyJ]

please, not only lan, if this DOES happen, then, please, not only with lan

[Obscillesk]

I dunno, it could be possible to do it in some of the old Strategy game styles, all players take their turns, then the computer takes its turn.

I dunno though, waiting on someone else to move would kinda kill it for me, I love how frantic this game is, especially considering its a roguelike

[jake250]

Maybe... everytime one of you make a turn the enemy make one, something like this, so all player can always move...

However it could be very annoying if people are just going mad and do not let you the time to react.

Maybe a limit on the differences of turn between both player should be here (so if I move 5 step and he didn't, I can't move anymore)

Or remove the ammount of move you can move each X second.

They are just idea thrown like that, maybe a good multiplayer could be made that way.

[JimmyJ]

Well, the more IDEAS that are contributed, the more we can form a plan!

[Turgor]

well, i've got an idea for multiplayer roguelikes (it's not my own btw, read it somewhere):

you use an engine with ticks, and every time a certain amount of ticks have passed, you get to take an action. ticks are based on a timer. say there are 10 ticks to a second, and a player can take a certain action after the required amount of ticks have passed:

moving 1 pace costs 10 ticks, shooting a pistol costs 5, reloading a rocket launchers costs 25 (just example figures)
if you want to move (or shoot etc), the engine checks when you have last done an action.. if 10 or more ticks have passed since your last action, you move. same goes for all the enemies you have to fight, and for your co-players. You could also stack a lot of commands, by pressing left 5 times rapidly, then watch yourself go left everytime 10 ticks have passed, untill the command buffer is empty. probably not a good idea to make the command buffer very big though, so you don't walk into a wall 300 times untill you're allowed to do something else >.<

however, i know that writing something like that means actually writing a completely new game engine. so it's probably not gonna happen here :S

[Obscillesk]

Thats a pretty cool method actually, I'd never considered that before, I think that'd work out pretty well.

[LAN fan]

We could also make it a real-time 2D - oh, wait.  :-)

I'd like to hear what Kornel thinks is possible and what's not.

Personally, I reckon it's workable, and the only reason we don't have cooperative roguelikes is because nobody's taken the effort to make one.  Everybody thinks it won't work, so nobody bothers.  But even if the first model doesn't work, at least it's a start...how many models did the Wright brothers go through before the fateful day at Kitty Hawk?  :-)

[Turgor]

Quoting: Obscillesk

Thats a pretty cool method actually, I'd never considered that before, I think that'd work out pretty well.

I know of a few games that use such a method (well, a bit more advanced, but my post seems to sum up the major aspects of determining when somebody can do something), the best of which is mangband, a version of angband. i heard rumors about other games like it that are being developed now (i heard that maybe JADE, the 2nd version of ADOM, will have a multiplayer option).

and outside of the RL genre, think about games like the early ultima series.. they used a similar system, except it is not multiplayer. come to think of it, real time roguelikes would resemble ultima a lot actually 0.o

[vdeogmer]

How about making both players be on the same turn(actions that take more time would take extra turns), so that as soon as both people are moved, they can both move again.

The problem is that it'd destroy the speed system.

And I severely disliked mangband, maybe it was just the speed at which it went, but it felt wholly uncomfortable to me. You ought to have some time to think about your move.

[Turgor]

well, speed can be tweaked.. and real time adds some more challenges like not being able to think too long ;)

but like i said before, it needs a completely new game engine, so it's not likely to happen for DoomRL.. at least not in the forseeable future.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

DoomRL 2.0 maybe ^_^

But honestly - this is a feature that would require a serious engine overhaul. This could be considered if I were to add a PayPal like donation system to my site. Unfortunately tough:

a) I don't think anyone would want to donate
b) PayPal doesn't support sending money to Poland

:-(

[JimmyJ]

Try an alternative? Or have people snail mail it to you :)

[Anonymous]

MP should allow the players infinite time to think - that's the essence of Roguelikes.

Besides, if you were playing with someone, you'd obviously be communicating with them, so issues with slowness can be sorted out.

As if Paypal doesn't service Poland.  It shouldn't be any harer for them than with any other industrial country.  Perhaps a phone call or two is in order.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Paypal in Poland - I guess they recieved at least a hundred thousand e-mails on that already. OTOH, I guess it's because eBay didn't make much of a buisness in Poland when it entered, because there was a huge native online auction website here already (Allegro).

I've heard there are other websites offering world money transfer -- but none of them had an donation system, and I guess not many people use them in PayPal-serviced countries (example - moneybookers.com).