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[Shoop da Whoop]

1) Recently I've remembered that Doom had two types of stacks for each type of ammo - little and big ones.
10mm: Clip and Box of bullets; shells: 4 shotgun cells and Box of them; rockets: One and Box of them; power cells: Energy cell and Energy cell pack.

2) In DoomRL we can take consumables (as they were in original series) and use them later (excluding AoI, of course).

By combining all of this, we get new item type... Ammo packs!

The primary idea is that you can carry more ammo without once-per-game Backpack.
Each ammo pack takes only one slot of inventory space. It's loaded and unloaded manually, but really fast - it was made for this purpose, after all. Reload and unload - one stack per action. ^*
Balancing issues: no mods, no Backpack effects, spawn rate - exotic.

How this may look like:
    [e] 10mm ammo chain [250/250]
    [f] 10mm ammo (x100)
Now, let they be presented!

10mm ammo chain
Appearance: !
Ingame Description: That reminds you about action films you've seen long ago.
Capacity: 250 of 10mm bullets.
Reload/Unload time: 0.4 sec per 100 ammo.

Shells box
Appearance: !
Ingame Description: What a handy thing.
Capacity: 125 of shotgun shells.
Reload/Unload time: 0.5 sec per 50 shells.

Rockets pack
Appearance: !
Ingame Description: Now that is REAL "boombox"!
Capacity: 25 of rockets.
Reload/Unload time: 0.6 sec per 10 rockets.

Power battery
Appearance: !
Ingame Description: Ampere-hours of pure energy!
Capacity: 125 of cells.
Reload/Unload time: 0.75 sec per 50 cells.

So, ammo packs will be useful for ammo conserving, Ao100 players and for that who doesn't use Ammochain. Rarity of them should prevent gamebreaking.

Addendum:
^* Can we have something similar for minigun reloading, like 100 ammo per 1.8 sec? And full reload (alternative) will be still 3.5 seconds. Because loading one stack per time just seems more reasonable. Same thing for BFG.

[ZZ]

Would be more comfortable if you were able to directly load your gun from these things, rather than unloading-loading them.

[Thomas]

Would be more comfortable if you were able to directly load your gun from these things, rather than unloading-loading them.

I believe the real-time and game-time inconvenience is supposed to be what stops this idea from making the game too much easier.

[BirdoPrey]

this idea... it ownss

[you]

Shoop da Whoop wins 3 Internets for this idea!

[Malek Deneith]

* Malek Deneith stamps this idea with Inquisitorial Stamp of Approval

[Gargulec]

* Gargulec stamps the idea with High Priest's Mark Of Trueness To The Dogma

[Fanta Hege]

I approve of this idea.

[Shoop da Whoop]

* Shoop da Whoop stares at the posts and doesn't seem to believe his own eyes.

[thelaptop]

* thelaptop stamps his Supporter of Chaos seal

Need a bounty to see this happen?

[Ander Hammer]

* Ander Hammer doodles in the space around Gargulec's stamp, as he doesn't have his own idiosyncratic approval stamp yet and likes it for mostly the same reasons.

[MaiZure]

Shoop is my new hero - Give this guy his own medal!
Great idea!

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

I... actually have a modification proposal for this one.

Apart from manual loading unloading, you can place the box/chain into the prepared slot. If you do, then you can reload your primary weapon a lot faster (it automatically reloads from prepared slot too).

[Shoop da Whoop]

...And that was just one more random idea week ago.

[Ander Hammer]

Nice idea, Kornel! Now all we have to do is wait for Kornel to take a look at it and pass judgement.





...wait

[Simon-v]

If the refinement of the idea above gets accepted:
1) As much as it would be desired, boxes should be unmoddable, or moddable only once, preferably requiring WK and only with bulk mods (330+ ammo maybe is just a little too much, but 580+ is waaaaaaay too much for such a device, and i don't even want to think what is supposed to happen if some smartass slaps a Nano on it).
2) Reloading the "box" and reloading the weapon should be separated. There is no wrong with having to do "z, r, z" when you're outside combat to prepare for the next one, especially if it helps you reload as if you had an extra level in Reloader (just about enough to be balanced, though i'm not quite sure it won't break something given the right conditions).

[GrimmC]

Pretty rad idea, I've been thinking for awhile that there should be some variance with the ammo pickups.

[Shoop da Whoop]

and i don't even want to think what is supposed to happen if some smartass slaps a Nano on it

You cannot unload this box! Mwahahahaha!

[Ander Hammer]

and i don't even want to think what is supposed to happen if some smartass slaps a Nano on it).

Probably the same thing that happens to any weapon with a nano, with the caveat that you have to either switch to it and unload it, or use it to actually reload every weapon of that ammo type you're using, and you'd probably have to have it at least prepared to get the effect.

How's this more overpowered than, say, Power Armor? Or, I guess, even a nuclear BFG.

[GrimmC]

True. I would definitely support this idea, considering there's exotic weapons which can basically be used as ammoboxes if you don't feel like actually firing them. (i.e. those two miniguns in my last run)

[Sambojin]

It is a cool idea. But......

Are we getting a bit too lazy as players? Ammo conservation used to be a major factor in many builds. Not even so much as a case of not firing much, but can you carry enough ammo whilst still having enough armour/medikits/consumables to see you through? Especially with the RNG giving you fun little things like "No shotgun shells for 6 floors". Insert you build's favoured type of ammo here. Inventory management was fairly key in 0.9.9.1 and still quite prized in 0.9.9.2.

Now we have quite a few other things. An extra inventory slot. Assemblies by the bucketload (giving onyx style armour and better damage per ammo usage). A stick for the Vaults that saves you phase device space. The fact that you can slap mods on anything to make them better until they're assembled, which saves inventory space.

Fair enough, we have a few extra consumables to carry around. But so far almost every modification from 0.9.9.1 to 0.9.9.3 has in some small way made the game a little easier. A lot more flexible, a lot cooler, and a lot more fun to play. But bit by bit, a little easier. Sometimes in ways that can't really be substantiated.

I like the idea. In fact I think it's awesome. But do the players need it for reasons of balance? The exotic rareness will make it one more cool thing that makes things a little easier on the prospective cybie killer from time to time.

Necessary? No. Cool? Yes.

[thelaptop]

But bit by bit, a little easier. Sometimes in ways that can't really be substantiated.

If one keeps playing on HNTR, then yes, the new additions do make it easier.  But since the advent of fast monsters that hit hard, all the other difficulties are fast becoming unplayable.  N! is practically not worth the effort to play save for a couple of die hard willing-to-QY players, and UV scales harder now.  While we only see the addition of new things that seem to make game play easier, don't forget that there are also new additions that make the game much harder: from the reworking of a few of the "easy" special levels to include boss characters/changing layout, to the addition of "panic" events where you must fight against the clock, to the creation of potentially untraversable terrain (lava rivers anyone)?

One goal that we should work towards is to have a playable N!.  Yes, it will be insanely hard, but it cannot be something that is completely impossible to do.  So I think we should try to bear this in mind when we consider the addition of something new for the player -- it will definitely make the easier difficulties just a sliver more easy, but it also helps to chip away on the whole N! is not really possible to play situation.