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Author Topic: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation  (Read 3340 times)

LuckyDee

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Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« on: July 18, 2012, 12:53 »

I've been thinking about posting a bounty for quite some time now, and since I'd rather have Kornel work for my money than simply make another donation, here's what I'm toying with:

{I} New Features
In the past, there has already been some discussion in regard to cosmetic changes in the level design. Some of the features discussed might warrant special attention in regard to side effects they might have, but that's not what I'm currently interested in. I think a little more visual variation might do the game a lot of good. This might range from simply swapping tiles - I seem to remember dark blue floors in some of the UAC bases in the original game, to be used in vaults or similar rooms for example - to more complex features that have different effects on visibility, movement and weaponry, depending on the type of feature.
Windows for examply would allow sight and shots to pass through, but would restrict movement (possible exceptions for Souls and Arachnotrons, which I remember being tiny); force fields/barriers would only allow sight to pass; other contraptions could only allow movement - think of the rotating fireplace/bookshelf in ScoobyDooesque detective tales.

We'd have to take stock of the possibilities, determine what would be deemed a good addition and what wouldn't be, and see what's feasible to add. Entering phase 1: fire off your ideas! Think of the effects listed above, and possibly more (I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea how vast the sea of flags is), but bear the features or at least the idea of the original Doom in mind.

{II} Prefab Levels - What, In A Roguelike? - Yes, Hear Me Out, Will You?
Except for the special levels such as the Entry, the Arena, the Court, etc, I assume every level is generated randomly at some point during the game. The second part of my suggestion is to create an additional pool of prefab levels that have a small chance of appearing instead of a normal level, decided when determining the level type (cave/maze/arena/etc). These levels could be references to the original Doom, other shoot-em-ups, movies, books, comics, whatever. Content such as monsters and items could still be generated randomly, so in the best case the player only knows what layout to expect. I'm willing to bet a few digits on my left hand that I'm not the only player who's been toying with ideas in this regard, and who knows what talents there may be among us?

You could even run competitions to increase the numbers of these levels while maintaining the quality of the design. Again, it'd all start with getting some ideas going. Somebody'd need to list the basic demands level design would have to meet, and people'd have to get drawing.

So... who's up for it? Post your thoughts, custom features, design ideas or complete designs and whatnot and let's see if we can broaden the content a little. Additionally, since I take it this would also take up a lot of time on the developers' side, who's willing to help me carry this bounty?

Cheers,


Dee
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thelaptop

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Re: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 18:08 »

I think that the ideas are great, but they might not be that suitable for DoomRL at this point.  One of the main things that we really need to to do progress and advance DoomRL is to push it towards a state where modding and total conversions are do-able.  And I think that part of that requires us to push DoomRL into version 1.0, where it will be open sourced.

Once we reach that stage, we can have all these custom features going in.  Of course, what I say here is based solely on what I think I know -- Kornel will have the final word on what his plans are.
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Napsterbater

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Re: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 22:42 »

I was gonna say, if you just want something worthy of putting a bounty on, why not just come up with some decent level generation ideas, then put a price tag on implementation. There's some decent ones that have already been done in the Inferno mod.

Also, if you look at the stuff that's already on the board, there's plenty of things that seriously need funding. Both the DoomRL 0.9.9.7 and the DiabloRL 0.4.6 releases only have $30 on it. (I just put $20 on DoomRL) Kornel scored over a grand for 0.9.9.6, so we need to motivate him some! Fixing the Fireangel bug has to be worth something!
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LuckyDee

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Re: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 14:58 »

I think that the ideas are great, but they might not be that suitable for DoomRL at this point.

...why not just come up with some decent level generation ideas, then put a price tag on implementation.

Sounds sensible enough, thanks for your feedback. Like I wrote in the original post, this here is just probing, and any ideas and opinions are welcome. In fact, I think you're probably right and that my plan should be held until 'version 1.0'. In the meantime, I think it doesn't hurt if people have a crack at it - it'll likely take a lot of time and effort which certainly won't all be seen on my part, so maybe this thread can be used as a general pool for ideas.

Vis-a-vis the Inferno mod: read a lot, seen nothing. I'm not quite sure which ideas are being referred to either, so please elaborate if you will.

Both the DoomRL 0.9.9.7 and the DiabloRL 0.4.6 releases only have $30 on it. (I just put $20 on DoomRL) Kornel scored over a grand for 0.9.9.6, so we need to motivate him some! Fixing the Fireangel bug has to be worth something!

True. True. I'll go ahead and follow your example - Fireangel was the first Master I ever took a shot at. I'd still like to hear more people's opinions on design diversity though...
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Napsterbater

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Re: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 15:24 »

Vis-a-vis the Inferno mod: read a lot, seen nothing. I'm not quite sure which ideas are being referred to either, so please elaborate if you will.
Well, there's plenty of special levels with neat elements. I thought the cave pillar elements from the very first level, after the bridge, were pretty neat. I'd rather see larger, more distinct pillars in the caves than what's there now, which looks more like fractal noise than a cave, probably because it is. Also interesting were the divided rooms.
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Klear

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Re: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 16:52 »

Is it OK to hijack this thread for general level design ideas?

Somebody suggested rooms with circular acid/lava pools with a little space in the middle in some thread earlier. Preferably acid. There's not neraly enough acid in this game.

Make an item spawn on the little island when generating the level and increase the chance of the item being something rare and you've got yourself a good reason to wear foot protection instead of tactical boots all the time. Besides, such rooms feel quite doomish to me.

As for the windows, force fields, barriers etc. you suggested in the OP, I wouldn't go overboard with that, to keep the game somewhat simple. I would like to see windows - impassable but allowed to shoot through. There's been a LOT of that in doom. Additionally, it would serve to nerf the melee game a bit.
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LuckyDee

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Re: Bounty Research: Level Design and Generation
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 00:10 »

Is it OK to hijack this thread for general level design ideas?

Take this baby and drive.

As for the windows, force fields, barriers etc. you suggested in the OP, I wouldn't go overboard with that, to keep the game somewhat simple. I would like to see windows - impassable but allowed to shoot through.

I just wrote down the first examples that came to mind. The way I see it, it's best to have a huge pool of ideas and then kick out everything that doesn't fit at the end. Also, by the magic of association, the more thoughts you fire off, the more others will be triggered.

I thought the cave pillar elements from the very first level, after the bridge, were pretty neat. ... Also interesting were the divided rooms.

Maybe I should just check and see for myself, especially after reading all the stuff from players who seem to be having a ball with it..
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