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Author Topic: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)  (Read 13353 times)

MaiZure

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Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« on: August 26, 2011, 07:44 »

Here is an idea that would add an entire new gameplay layer accessable to veteran players and build specialists.
Champion Challenges

It starts off simple enough with our usual list of "Angel of X" challenges
Let's walk through the idea with Angel of Berserk

A veteran player has been able to beat AoB on HNTR, HMP, N! and finally wraps up his final difficulty level for that challenge by beating UV.
Well that earns him a medal, which we'll call the "Berserker Medallion". But that's not all. It unlocks a new challenge called "Champion of Berserk".

This challenge is 100 levels under the Angel of Berserk rules at either UV, N! or a modified difficulty level. Finishing this makes a player a TRUE CHAMPION of Berserk, which would probably include another unique medal and ultimately a badge series devoted to how many Champion Challenges you can complete.


Now from the start, even a fresh player should be able to read about Champion Challenges under the Challenge Game menu because there would be two columns, but Champion Challenges would always be greyed out until the Angel level has been completed on all difficulty levels. The challenge screen for a relatively new player with only 3 challenges open would look something like this:

Angel of Berserk                  Champion of Berserk                 
Angel of Marksmanship                  Champion of Marksmanship                 
Angel of Shotgunnery                  Champion of Shotgunnery                 
Angel of Light Travel                  Champion of Light Travel                 
...and so on

Not sure what to do about Ao100 - Champion of Eternity?


Anyway, I think if the gameplay were extended for veteran players in this direction, it would keep me coming back for a looooong time. That and it would give me a reason to do things like AoMr on HMP and other various challenge levels I wouldn't normally think about.

Maybe this would be a great time to direct your attention to my old bounty about Former Elites in those Champion game modes...:P


Let's see if we can make this in to an idea that works!
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 08:52 »

Well, since each "Champion of X" has 4 times as many dungeon levels than the last, clearly Champion of Eternity has 400 levels to go through ala Ao100 rules, but on steroids?
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 09:58 »

In Co100 you just play until you get a glitched split screen map at level 256.

Well, since each "Champion of X" has 4 times as many dungeon levels than the last, clearly Champion of Eternity has 400 levels to go through ala Ao100 rules, but on steroids?
*exits dlvl100*
Game: "This is only the beginning!"
Player: "WAT"

xD
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 10:04 by ParaSait »
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 11:09 »

A veteran player has been able to beat AoB on HNTR, HMP, N! and finally wraps up his final difficulty level for that challenge by beating UV.
I just have to laugh at this because it's so true that AoB on Ultra-violence is actually harder than on Nightmare!. We need to fix this somehow.

The idea of having an enhanced challenge, as a result of dominating the challenge it enhanced, is pretty awesome for veteran players such as myself, though I can't say that it would make much sense for the average player unless N! was significantly easier. Just from the general vibe I got from UV players wary of entering N! territory, the gap was way too big for all but a few to really dig into it. Frankly I don't think it would be a huge detriment to this issue if we simply omitted N! from the necessary criteria. Since it won't be in until at LEAST .995, though, my opinion may change greatly after thoroughly playing the soon-to-be .994 release (which is to say, the game might be easier overall).

Even with this in mind, however, I don't think slapping on A100 to each of them is the right way to go about it. It would appear that there is a rather sharp divide between players who would love the idea of going down 100 floors EVERY game and players who will do it once just to try it and never do so again, if that. (Honestly I fit into the small category of "now and again because there's a huge potential for really ridiculous builds" but there is definitely dissent in the large majority of players I've talked to.) A better idea is to take each's challenge to the extreme in creative ways, although some general restrictions should probably include things like no special equipment (other than what you find in special levels) and no assembly-building, bringing it back to old-school DoomRL.

Some examples (note that, in cases where I have several suggstions, it could be any combination of them, not necessarily all):

  • Champion of Berserk
    • No Berserk Packs (gotta activate it yourself)
    • Enemies deal 50% more melee damage
    • Angel of Death actually has Longinus Spear (or Azrael's Scythe) equipped (his ToDam bonus is removed to slightly compensate)
    • While zerked, all objects on map are unreadable (cannot use 'look' to know what they are) and all enemies are simply 'fresh meat' with M symbol
  • Champion of Marksmanship
    • Levels are heavily dominated by former humans, and they get the same traits you do
    • All enemies have some form of bullet resistance
    • Cyberdemon uses two pistols and comes with SoG3/DG (or just change his traits/attack to emulate this)
  • Champion of Shotgunnery
    • Levels are heavily dominated by former sergeants, and they get the same traits you do
    • Dropoff of your shotguns (not enemies') is doubled (also, if point-blank doesn't have 0% dropoff, change so that it does)
    • Cyberdemon uses 'chain-shotgun' attack, though it has a pretty significant reload
  • Champion of Impatience
    • Can only reload when weapon is completely empty
    • Cannot use 'wait' command
    • Cannot use 'look' command
    • Limited messages (stuff like hits, deaths, what the item underneath you is)
    • Any time you pick up equipment it is auto-equipped (and takes that much extra time at once)
  • Champion of Haste
    • 25 levels, but scaling is quadrupuled (so basically the way A100 scales)
  • Champion of Purity
    • No items that weren't in the original Doom (Tracking Map, combat shotgun, combat knife, red armor, etc)
    • No special levels: red stairs just send you to an extra random floor
    • Actual benefits: start with 100HP, green armor is 50% resist all, blue armor is 75% resist all
    • Inulnerability Globe and Berserk actually work, but neither heal you and berserk's only effect is to amplify fist damage by tenfold
  • Champion of Masochism
    • 0% chance of 'normal' and 'archi' levels to spawn (city/arena/cave/single-type only)
    • Tripled chance of level events

I'd probably prefer these sorts of changes over just four times the floors, and I'm sure a lot of people would too. (Besides, you can emulate most challenges by self-imposing restrictions in the first place and can potentially be tracked for medals.) I suppose I just don't see the fun in AoMC + A100, considering that AoMC starts to get boring near the end (and tacking on 75 more floors doesn't really change that).
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 11:46 »

Champion of Light travel: no half-of-inventory limit, but each non-empty inventory slot slows you down for .05 sec. Equipment slots are inventory too.
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MaiZure

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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 17:47 »

Some examples (note that, in cases where I have several suggstions, it could be any combination of them, not necessarily all):

These are premium ideas, Game Hunter! Yes, much better than Ao100 challenge spam - I would play this types of challanges religiously.
I'm in favor of ditching the N! requirement since that game mode is essentially a new style of gameplay from all of the others and it would pull some non-N! players in to the fun.


Champion of Light travel: no half-of-inventory limit, but each non-empty inventory slot slows you down for .05 sec. Equipment slots are inventory too.

Good start. I'm thinking more along the lines of Champion of LT would require you to auto-equip weapons and gear, meaning you couldn't carry spares around and had to improvise on the fly with what RNG generated. Possibly one ammo slot (or pack only?). This would also force you to ditch weapons for other ones on the fly as well because of ammo shortages. Maybe three inventory slots for utility items/mods only?


Still open for input on:
Champion of Darkness [upcoming mode .994]
Champion of Red Alert
Champion of Max Carnage
Champion of 100 (Eternity?)
Champion of Pacifism
Champion of Humanity (DAMN?)

Also think about medal names for beating all of the difficulties for an Angel challenge.

Becoming a Champion of a challenge should probably give you something as well.
Military elites tend to get to wear a colored 'Beret' in uniform, but that is more of a sign of expertise and training, not necessarily accomplishment. Still it could fit here:
Beating Champion of Berserk could award you a medal called "Berserker Beret" - or if we wanted to keep it military like, just call it a "Crimson Beret".

Everything is just an idea at this point, so let's hear more!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 21:53 by MaiZure »
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 18:41 »

Game Hunter is a genius. I wish I could play his suggestions already :D!
(not that I've ever beaten any challenge mode on UV so far, though... :P)
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MaiZure

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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 00:11 »

Here is an idea for Champion of 100/Eternity:
  • Cannot take the stairs until you feel relatively safe (everything is dead)
  • Level events occur 75% of the time
  • Game continues on and on until certain requirements are met (so a side challenge is to see who can finish it in the fewest levels)
  • These requirements could be:
    • Reach clvl 25
    • Kill 500 creatures with each attack type (melee, pistol, shotgun, rapid)
    • Find the DS (haha)
    • Kill 12 Cyberdemons (three with each attack type)

EDIT Double Post:
Champion of Pacifism
Damnit, you forgot to bring that nuke along...but thats ok because at least three of the special levels have one somewhere (Armory stash, Lava Pit island, City of Skulls room)


Champion of Red Alert
  • Nuke rule is the same
  • Stairs will only appear if everything is dead OR there are less than 60 seconds left
  • Is that an undroppable nuke in your pocket with a 20m timer on it? Oh hell...

Champion of Max Carnage
  • Enemies get max accuracy and damage but you don't
  • Enemies also get Scout speed buffs
  • Trait effects DOUBLED for MAX++ CARNAGE muahaha! (Could also just double XP gain or pick two traits per level)
  • Mod restrictions lifted for more MAX CARNAGE potential

Champion of Darkness
We don't really have a good baseline on the gameplay for this challenge yet but here is one way we could take it:
  • Vision radius starts at 7 on every level but decays by one every 300 turns to a minimum of 2
  • As vision decays, enemies change AI to HUNTING mode
This should lead to an interesting strategy of using your early vision on a level to find a place to prepare for the coming onslaught!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 02:07 by MaiZure »
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 13:15 »

Champion of Pacifism
Pacifists shouldn't get angry - zerk doesn't work
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 15:13 »

Honestly I wouldn't mind if Champion of Eternity was unbeatable, neverending, like a gauntlet to see how far you can really get before it gets impossible.
I'd imagine the scalings to get impossible near 200's really.

Not to mention I wouldn't mind a Ao100 special modes, specialy for zerker rules, that would make me drool.

But hey;

Champion of Humanity
Angel Of Lightravel rules applied. What kind of normal human could carry all that stuff anyway?

Champion of Masochism.
Super charge every level up? Scratch that. Make it every 4 level ups. Now we're talking.

Champion of Haste
4x the speed. 4x the scaling. Good luck getting the gear and levels before cybie.
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MaiZure

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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 22:27 »

Champion of Humanity
Angel Of Lightravel rules applied. What kind of normal human could carry all that stuff anyway?


GH and I talked about this one on IRC.
First , I said that no Champion of Humanity could kill former humans. Their death could cause a penalty for you.
GH's idea was to get rid of formers entirely, meaning you'll be facing other foes right from the start.
Ammo drops would have to be upped accordingly
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2011, 15:55 »

Champion of Red Alert:
Whenever you use a health item, the time on the nuke counter drops a certain amount, depending on the item used - getting larger the more health it restores.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2011, 07:58 »

This idea is likely going to be developed over the course of 0.9.9.5 (renamed Archangel). Suggest everything that comes to mind!
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 10:28 »

Archangel of Max Carnage
  • Hitting something you can't see is impossible instead of 50%
  • Add Angel of Haste??
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 11:57 »

Archangel Rule #1 - If an item isn't in the original DooM, you can't use it (Nukes excepted)

MARKSMANSHIP - A True Marksman can take down enemies with one gun, not two. Secondary weapon slot is locked.
BERSERK - Armor slows your movements down too much for melee combat. Armor and Boots slots are locked.
DARKNESS - Where there is light, there is also darkness. Out-Of-Vision enemies have an increased chance of respawning, no matter what difficulty level.
RED ALERT - Sometimes, even Nukes aren't enough. Only bosses will die from being nuked.
MAX CARNAGE - He wants your head on a silver platter. Every enemy always knows exactly where you are.
ETERNITY - Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Only ends when you die.
PACIFISM - The white flag is the most powerful weapon you've got. Nothing can be equipped.
HUMANITY - If you can't beat them, join 'em! You start with 1 HP instead of 10.

Other Mode ideas:

Demonic Onslaught - A good way to practice handling mobs. The only monsters that appear in normal levels are Demons, Lost Souls, and Pain Elementals - and the Demons will revive after a while!
Painfest - What did you do to deserve this one? Everything's carrying shotguns instead of their normal weapons!
Cybernetic Crossfire - Mancubi, Revenants, and Arachnotrons are everywhere - even at the Hangar!
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 12:13 »

Ultimate Masochist -- AoB Painfest :P
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 10:03 »

Archangel of Shotgunnery

What, you don't believe that your trusty shotty can save you?!
No armor allowed.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 03:44 »

Archangel of Impatience

Doomrl is too long! No time to carry all those medkits, phase devices and armors, you use them immediately at pickup!

In addition to AoI rules, armors are treated as power ups. They can't be removed or modded, and are applied only effects and durability of the last armor picked up.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 23:45 »

Archangel of Impatience

Doomrl is too long! No time to carry all those medkits, phase devices and armors, you use them immediately at pickup!

In addition to AoI rules, armors are treated as power ups. They can't be removed or modded, and are applied only effects and durability of the last armor picked up.

simpler way - whenever you pick up armour, drop your current armour and equip the new one.  If you can't drop the armour (Cybernetic etc.), don't pick up the new one.
for true insanity, the same rule applies for weapons... perhaps that is too much, might force melee builds.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2011, 09:37 »

Archangel of Shotgunnery

What, you don't believe that your trusty shotty can save you?!
No armor allowed.

But just to help you out a bit, marines and techies start with TaN, while scouts start with Ironman.
At first it's a nice bonus, but it's hardly a substitute for the resistances of the more interesting armors.

Perhaps even a 1.5x boost to the items spawned, and just to be nasty, 40% of those should be armor. Whilst most else is just shell(boxe)s. ;)

BERSERK - Armor slows your movements down too much for melee combat. Armor and Boots slots are locked.
Well, that's just stupid. Armor, yes. But boots, that's not armor!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:46 by Bloax »
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2011, 12:42 »

And I suppose you could run at full speed while wearing metal boots?
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2011, 02:00 »

I doubt that they're just solid metal boots.
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Move Speed | +0% All of the basic armors slow down, but none of the boots do. Not to mention that boots really don't provide any real protection a berserker would need.
A 10% boost to speed really wouldn't hurt either. Because honestly, no armor is nasty as-is already. No point in messing up running through acid/lava.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2011, 12:37 »

I'm not trying to make light of any of these recent suggestions, but I'm hoping for Archangel challenges to be vastly different from the typical restrictions that are applied in Angels. See my previous post for examples of this. Changing around stats and equipment restrictions are fun and all, but consider these kinds of changes:

  • Restrictions on certain commands (ex: 'wait', 'look', 'drop')
  • Different stats on enemies (ex: Everything dealing plasma damage, blast radii doubled, everyone picks up and uses items (or comes with their own))
  • Changes in level-ups (ex: basic traits can lock out other basic traits)
  • Visual additions or removals (ex: all enemies look the same, attack messages removed, no tracking of HP)
  • Rearrangement of special levels (ex: Hell's Arena for every red stairs and gets progressively harder each time you enter)

There are many possibilities that aren't too far-reaching: I suggest that you use the sky as the limit when it comes to creativity for Archangels.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 13:37 »

AAoB - you completely lose yourself when berserking - aside from previous idea about "fresh meat@ signs you also don't get any map or item memory.

AAoI - no time to slack off, you need to kill now! After 15 seconds of not attacking enemy(which you see, corner-shooting does not work), or descending to lvl you start to lose health.If you are berserked you lose twice as much.You still lose hp even if invulnerable(it's not external damage, it's your mind problem).Applies after first kill/hit from enemy.On the other hand you can run longer(twice as normal mb).
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 15:30 »

Archangel of Berserk:

You start with a DragonSlayer and a Berseker Armor automatically, but... let us just say that it is no mere Hell you are wandering into, you are there to slay the God Hand, and by all that is holy, that ain't gonna be easy. Apostoles, their endless spawn, ranks of enemies that seem to stretch out into infinity...

Not like they can stop you.

Nothing can.
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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2011, 21:30 »

AAoS: You start with the DB and 50 shells. The DB is the only weapon you may use. You may not take master-traits or make any assemblies. You do start out with WK(1) to compensate, allowing you to turn your only gun into a death-dealing boom-stick.

Not too unconventional I know, but with only the DB's short range and no master-traits (or FDB) to help out, it should be quite a challenge to get through an UV or harder style game with it.

"The only good shotgun is a big shotgun. And you only use the biggest, the almighty double-barrel. You can't take any master-traits (those are for pussies) and can't make any assemblies (custom boom-sticks and threads only) but you do start with Whizzkid to help you make the daemon-broom of your dreams. It's time to clean-up hell, two shells at a time."
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Thexare

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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 22:09 »

A bit convoluted and overelaborate, I think, but this one should serve nicely to make AoPc even more painful...

Archangel of Pacifism:

You hate violence, you hate death, and were it not for necessity you'd have never taken this mission. Your saintly devotion to nonviolence has attracted attention, and not the kind you want: any demon would take pride in striking you down, and they'll hunt you relentlessly. Your former comrades weren't quite so easily swayed, but you still can't even raise your arms in defense against them. Worse, every death, even of demons, takes its toll on you, and even if you're never hit once, you may not make it through this...


All demons (all enemies except Formers and possibly the Angel of Death, though that depends on the DoomRL definition) are in Hunting mode. Former Humans (all variants) have the equivalent of SoBx2; your lack of defensive maneuvers against them means they'll hit you that much harder.

Every enemy that dies within LoS causes 1 damage to the player, 2 if over max health. Additionally, if an enemy dies by gibbing, the last action you took (open/close door, look, use of a specific item, equipping of a certain type of armor) is locked for two minutes game-time (120 steps without movespeed changes), and you take an additional one damage from every attack due to the mental scarring.
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Former Human Corporal
1/42 M, 7/60 S, 3/30 A
[ 6 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 0 ]

Sambojin

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Re: Extended Gameplay (Champion Challenges)
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 23:40 »

Just as a test of my AAoS suggestion, here's a couple of save scums. I know it's bordering on "against the site philosophy", but it will give people an idea of the challenge without having to mess around for a couple of levels.

The rules:
#1. You must only use the DB and only THAT DB shotgun.
#2. No master traits or assemblies allowed.
#3. Have fun.

Both saves are just after the Arena on UV AoS (for the DB). I've gone for shottyman first, and you start with a little equipment (too much IMO). The first save is a technician, nearing a level up, so grab Whizzkid and try the challenge as it's intended. The second one is a marine, with BA instead, which will probably make it too easy.

Just remove everything after the word "save" in the filename and dump them in the doomRL directory. A new copy preferably, so you don't sully your player record with evil savescums.

So, way too easy? Way too hard? Way too lame (or not nearly off-the-wall enough for an AA challenege)?

Here's the files. Remember the rules.

EDIT:

After playing around a little with it myself (sounds freaky I know), I've come to the conclusion that it's too bland. Not enough extra fun for an Archangel of * mission. Hard, or rather, very easy at the start, and then very middling in the middle. Pretty damn hard near the end. Most of it is about not getting too far ahead of yourself, not getting too cocky, not going on a rampage. Play with caution most of the time and run hard when you need to. A little too much like AoB, with a reverse scaling (easy->moderately hard compared to hard->moderately hard).

So some more ideas for Archangel of Shotgun. Only a DB still, but you can't use shell boxes. Your shotgun takes two hands to weild. Give cybie a power modded combat shotty and 500 shells, for a weird blastx5/reload/blast dance, constant damage for you at the end. No nukes, Archangels kill in person - not with big, red button. Combat knife on a shotty. This is going to be the biggest god-damned shotty of all, its got a f'ing big blade on the end too (unassemble-able combat knives just reduce a little barrel-item-loss and make it into the shotty beyond all shotties. Gives a reason for brute builds or agility mods on the shotty, bulk still does reload time, power does shot damage. Or both melee/shotty damage for fun).

One player class: AAoSh. Normal stats, UV hardness, dungeon level+5 (no phobos base or arena but maybe a court on lvl1). Starts with an Angel's DB shotgun (takes 3 mods standard, WK still adds 2 to mod limit, max limit 3 per mod type), with normal DB shotgun damage/range/drop-off/fire-time, can melee with it for combat knife damage. Ag mods add to melee accuracy by +2. Gun takes two hands (no prepared slot). Can only use this weapon.

Trait changes:
SoaB: You can deal it, but can you take it? Every 12 damage you take adds +1d3 to your shotgun's damage for the next 5 secs.

EE: If you can see them, by god they'll die. Each level reduces drop-off by 1%.

Int: See no evil. Int(1) is normal. Int(2) gives entire wall layout but no enemy positioning.

Triggerhappy: Renamed as "Face Shot". Each level reduces the enemies natural armour by 1.


Meh, still some work to do and math-sy thinking. It might just work...... Try the trial idea......
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:55 by Sambojin »
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