DRL > Requests For Features

Suggestion for some shotgun-related changes

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Ander Hammer:

--- Quote from: rchandra on September 23, 2011, 23:15 ---Hmm.  units count as one square closer per agility mod?

--- End quote ---

Golly, that'd be neat. Agility mod your shotgun today and actually be able to do the listed damage if you're close enough!

rekenne:
... Oh, huh, that's why sarges seem so much tougher now, they did get a buff. And, yeah, my strategy for Hell's Arena always used to be: Find Combat Shotty or bring as many shotguns as I can with me. It worked well enough, though not as good as the combat shotty. Now that the CShotty is down to dlvl6 ... I think *it* became useless. Unless I go AoShotgunnery, I'm dropping shotguns like they're hot for the chaingun, most of the time. The Combat Shotty gave you a decent weapon for a bit and maybe outstripped the chaingun for a bit, but now... it's "abuse the AI and sound mechanics" not a gun. I think this made shotgun type weapons less viable, on the whole, really.

Sambojin:
I actually like shotguns as they stand, but they do have an overpowered->underpowered effect as you go through the game. The combat shotgun does entirely replace the normal shotgun, even more so with the tactical shotgun assembly being an easy to make weapon. Elephant guns are good, but a tac shotty is essentially a power-modded assault shotgun, making it THE thing to go for in almost any shotgun build. Between shottyman's full reload, less drop-off, tighter cone and using up a tech rather than power mod, I'll grab a tac shotty rather than an elephant every time. The single goes by the wayside, caught between the double for close range and the combat (or tactical) for distance, where you might just carry one through for Juggling purposes and still never really use it after the early game is over.

Here's my thoughts on how to make the shotgun more useful (and random thoughts on all the shotgun's play dynamics, with pointless real-life and scifi explanations in asterix text for no good reason).

#1. Slug firing alt-fire. Give it a slightly slower fire time, say 1.2 secs to account for aiming, with an 8d3 (or 12d2) shot at about +2 accuracy with standard bullet damage. Makes the shotgun a nice, versatile weapon being able to be modded in any way and usuable in any build.
* You don't know what type of shell Doomguy loaded, buckshot or slug, it's just loaded with a shell. Shells are shells. You just know what type of shell you're firing, not loading. *
* Sci-fi explanation. In the future, all shotgun shells are dual use. They are made up of a pre-shattered and re-fused depleted uranium slug with a micro-explosive detonator imbedded centrally in the shell, that can be set off in two ways. There is what we consider the standard buckshot form, where the micro-explosive is set off as the main charge of the round is fired, causing the round to break up into fragments whilst achieving muzzle velocity in the barrel. The other firing mode de-fuses the shell from the primary firing sequence and places it into impact-mode, firing the cartridge as a solid slug until it strikes a target, at which point the micro-explosive is detonated, causing massive internal injuries or shrapnel damage to the target. *

#2. More assemblies.
An assembly for combat shotgun like spread (AA), an assembly for DB spread (AB), a slug firing assembly (AT), a 3 shell magazine shotgun for mini-combat/high spread use (BB) or a plasma-blast-cutter wall-breacher(TB). It can be the non-whizkid, super-versatile weapon of modding choice. Whatever you find, you can slap it on a shotgun and make it your tool for the job.
* Over the years the simplicity of a shotgun has won over many fans. Whilst it's not great against modern armour, it's high reliability, large target circle, modifiability, excellent close-quarter abilities and tolerance to ammunition types (ranging from non-lethal/door-breaching/flares/electronic and pseudo-grenades all the way to the standard slug and buckshot rounds) has won over adherance in the military, police, criminal and civilian communties everywhere. A shotgun ain't just a shotgun. Is it a long barrel hunting gun, a sawn-off shotty, a mini-magazine non-pumper or has it just got a breaching charge loaded? It's your damn shotgun, you'd know. *
*Sci-fi explanation. The shotgun is the weapon assigned to all our Sergeants. They're the men on the ground, not only giving the orders and kicking arse, but damn well making sure those orders can be completed. The shotgun is their weapon. It makes sure those orders are not only followed, but that the mission is completed, regardless of the problems. Because of this, we have made their standard issue weapon both simple yet versatile. It can be modified almost indefinately to take a huge range of ammunition or to be altered into almost any configuration with all normal issue mod-packs. Grab your shotgun, fufill your mission. *

More to follow, my phone's almost dead :)

Sambojin:
#3 On shotguns, agility/bulk mods and fire-cones.
There';s only three types of fire cones that I know of, DB/SB/combat. You could also have a slug shot(single heavy damage bullet) at the end of that sequence. Could you have shotguns use agility mods to tighten the fire-cone and perhaps bulk mods widening it. Perhaps changing the damage/drop-off/accuracy as you do. It would allow some alteration for all shotguns with mods that you don't often use singly on them and give them a wider range of uses. Whizzkids could get a DB all the way from normal to double-shot-slug with 3 otherwise useless agilty mods. Or an combat shotty to a mutli-shot DB spread for low damage, high probabilty cornering.
* It's a shotgun. Whether it's a single barrel, a double or a pump action, barrel length determines the spread more so than any factor other than ammo type. And lead slugs really do go better with a rifled barrel. Cut the barrel down for a sawn-off, high spread shotgun or have a long-barrel hunting shotgun. It's simple goddammit. *
*Sci-fi explanation. All standard issue shotguns of any class have standard calibre barrels and fire all standard shotgun rounds. It gives us a basic weapons platform that is reliable, customisable, gives excellent redundancy in squads and saves us a fortune on bulk-ordering parts from Sambojin's Shotgun Supplies. Because of this, barrelling systems and breaches are interchangeable between all shotgun classes, taking only seconds to swap out one for another using only a few simple tools. Guess what? You forgot your tools..... *

Bloax:
Hm..


--- Code: ---Agility mod - Tightens spread cone, decreases damage drop-off by 1% per tile, removes one of highest dice (8d3 - 7d3) and adds a constant +1 to damage. (?)
Bulk mod - Increases spread cone, increases damage drop-off by 1(1.5?)% per tile, removes one of highest dice and adds a constant lowest dice damage bonus. (?@Damage)
Power mod - Decreases damage drop-off by 1% (Kaboom! .. 0.5%?) per tile, adds one highest dice.
Technical mod - Decreases damage drop-off by (1.5?)%/tile, decreases firing and reloading time by 10% (?) (?Good candidate for assemblies?)
--- End code ---

Perhaps 1d(MinDice-1)+2 for the bulk mod? (ATM what I have there is just damage maximization. (Eg. Shotgun B2 = 6-18+6))
That way said example would end up being (12-13)-(24-25) ... (ehh) Yeah, probably 1.5% increased drop-off for higher average damage. (And larger spread.)

And yeah, it'd be cool if ordinary shotguns were a "mainstream" weapon.

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