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Author Topic: Guns and Melee  (Read 4175 times)

Ander Hammer

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Guns and Melee
« on: September 26, 2011, 19:44 »

As far as I know, the way things currently are, moving towards a square occupied by an enemy with a gun equipped rolls for a fist attack, and if you score a kill, it's a kill for the gun.

Why not have fun with this?

Guns like pistols, shotguns, and rifles can all have close combat applications, and of course a Marine would be familiar with them - pistol-whipping, butt strikes and bayonets, to name a few examples. Why not give guns their own melee dice - nothing major, just more than 1d2+SoB/Brute. Combat knives could possibly be used to mod weapons (probably granting slightly less than straight-up knife damage). More damaging combinations and different dtypes could be applied in the event that something more exotic is assembled, like some kind of chainsaw gun laser bayonet.

Pistols - pistol whips would probably be fairly fast but do little damage.
Shotguns - normal speed and slightly more damage.
Rocket Launcher - these would probably pack the most heft.
Rapid weapons - depends. There are multiple types - smaller, handheld ones could be used similar to shotguns, and there are bayonet possibilities.
Heavier options - assault cannons, BFGs and miniguns may not be as useful in melee, so maybe default to fist or no melee attack.

It would be sort of neat if kills scored by gun-melee were counted separately, but eh.

This may also open up some fun chainsaw gun assembly possibilities. Not sure how all of this should interact with Berserker.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
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alver

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 05:37 »

...and with ammochain equipped in the current slot, a marine would attempt to strange his opponent!
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Fanta Hege

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 05:08 »


Heavier options - assault cannons, BFGs and miniguns may not be as useful in melee, so maybe default to fist or no melee attack.

What no!

How could you not imagine Doomguy smashing imps with BFG like it was a giant hammer?
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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 09:56 »

What no!

How could you not imagine Doomguy smashing imps with BFG like it was a giant hammer?
Clearly that would temper with the whole delicateness of the alignment of all the plasma controlling parts.

D'oh.  =P
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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 21:50 »

On a side note, I once added the typical "Doomguy Rifle" to a ZDoom mod--with a bayonet attached. A fierce bayonet thrust was the altfire...it worked pretty well actually.
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Tormuse

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 21:42 »

...and with ammochain equipped in the current slot, a marine would attempt to strange his opponent!

I find this image hilarious!  :D  (Especially when picturing monsters that don't have a neck, like Arachnotrons and Cacodemons)  :)
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Uranium

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2011, 04:20 »

Clearly that would temper with the whole delicateness of the alignment of all the plasma controlling parts.

D'oh.  =P

it's illegal to put expletives in a gun's name if it isn't a viable option to hit things with it :)
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Tormuse

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2011, 10:20 »

It occurs to me that in this model, the Grammaton Cleric Beretta should do extra melee damage, considering that they have blades built into them.  (From the movie Equilibrium)  I suppose they would also do extra damage if you have Gun Kata Master Trait.  :)
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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2011, 12:25 »

...and with ammochain equipped in the current slot, a marine would attempt to strange his opponent!
Yeah, I suppose it is pretty strange that the marine gets unlimited ammo out of nowhere :P
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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2011, 13:03 »

isn't the 10mm ammo box is called an ammo chain?
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Tormuse

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 13:08 »

Huh!  I didn't even notice the typo, "strange" instead of "strangle."  I must be getting dyslexic in my old age.  :P

isn't the 10mm ammo box is called an ammo chain?

Yes.  The joke was that the marine would strangle monsters with it if it's in the prepared slot.
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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 15:24 »

It's a bit of a necro I know, but has any more thought been given to this subject?

There's only a few positives for the player (a shotgun may end up doing more damage to a red-armoured Baron if it's H2H abilities were buffed) and many negatives. The negative being that if guns were buffed into close combat weapons the actual H2H weapons abilities would be lessened. Why carry a combat knife or a chainsaw if a plasma rifle really could do it all?

The reason I'm asking is more-so from the modding end of things (the game, not the mod-packs). How well does DoomRL handle such things in game? Can the melee attack be seperate from the fire/alt-fire/reload/alt-reload "attacks".

DoomRL has an excellent engine for combat games (the dodge system, etc), so I was wondering if anyone has modded in a weapon to test the above thoughts?

How did it go?

Yeah, I know this probably should go in the modding forum, but if someone has tried it, how did it play out? I've been playing a fair bit of NH/ADOM/Crawl recently, and I envision a DRL style game being a lot more satisfying for sword&sorcery style games. Might even be my next project after the wiki thing.......
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Ander Hammer

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2011, 11:23 »

The negative being that if guns were buffed into close combat weapons the actual H2H weapons abilities would be lessened. Why carry a combat knife or a chainsaw if a plasma rifle really could do it all?

This is not particularly my intention with this idea.

Very few melee-modded weapons would stack up to melee damage. Nothing would come close to Longinus-level damage, for example. It's more of a 'pseudo-Juggler' suggestion, except that instead of whipping out a combat knife for a quick stab for full damage, your gun is automatically equipped with something that does maybe a little more than half that in melee. This does have the advantage of lessening the need for melee weapons in the prepped slot, of course...
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Sambojin

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2011, 20:00 »

Other than a ML/RL, a BFG or a shotgun, why wouldn't you just press the fire button? Fair enough for barrel damage containment, but they're one of those tactical elements you need to take into account.

If it's just for ammo concerns or lazy play (I get shot a lot more than I should due to not paying attention), it's kind of meant to have that dividing line I think. There's not much stopping you actually using your guns as close combat weapons, just press "f".

I'm even trying out a close combat with MAD style DB shotty build. It's just a big chainsaw, a double one in fact (that only requires one power mod to max it). A D.chainsaw with better average damage. That ignores armour. With knockback. That gibs any former within 3 squares with every shot. It might need ammo, but it is a fun way to play as a self imposed restriction (only DB's once one is found). It's essentially a polearm style CC weapon, with 0.8 sec swap or 1sec move/reload. Like a frontal longinus whirl every shot. Play it exactly like you would a AoB run, except go for MAD then MSur, and enjoy the fact you get a great CC weapon every game.
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Ander Hammer

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Re: Guns and Melee
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 16:18 »

Other than a ML/RL, a BFG or a shotgun, why wouldn't you just press the fire button? Fair enough for barrel damage containment, but they're one of those tactical elements you need to take into account.

If it's just for ammo concerns or lazy play (I get shot a lot more than I should due to not paying attention), it's kind of meant to have that dividing line I think.

I think at least one person has misinterpreted my reason for suggesting this.

It can introduce some new minor mechanic or something, but it is not meant to be super optimal omg everything else is now obsolete, or omg it's useless don't bother putting it in.

Currently, when you have a shotgun equipped, you punch the demon in the face.

I think it would be cool if, for slightly more damage and maybe another little reason to take Brute in a game that's not completely melee, you punched them with the shotgun, instead.
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