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[Bloax]

I was thinking about how annoying it is to actually start with a melee build.
Yes, they become rather nasty later in the game, but now I'm thinking about how nasty everything is in the beginning.

To compensate, it might be a so-so idea to make it give you some health in addition to damage.

So, from "+3 Melee damage*Brute level", I'm thinking about "+((1*Brute level)d2 + Brute level) Melee damage, and +5*Brute hit points"
Yes, some extra health, but 0 to Brute level less damage.

Thoughts about my wacky idea?

[Deathwind]

Melee in the early game isn't that hard once you learn what you can charge and what you need to handle with care.

The change in damage (lvl1 = 2-3, lvl2 = 4-6...) is not really enough to warrant stapling half a level of ironman to it as even the most basic melee weapon already has a large damage variance (combat knife = 2-10). The extra HP would just server to break vampyre more than it already is.

[Bloax]

I can't really see what's more to learn about sergeants now, other than gift-luring them in (often) impossible conditions.
And it could be (1*Brute)d3 for all I care, but a bit of extra health would still be nice.

Or well, I don't know, 10% Melee resistance instead of health?
Don't tell me that dealing around with tougher foes (tomatoes) isn't luck-based (dodge dodge) early on now though.

[Gargulec]

Hell no. Brute is fine as it is (some even claim that a bit on the OP side thanks to the melee accuracy bonus), and sergeants are not that bad as they tend to portray them: you can charge them, just remember to run. Unless they are on the edge of your vision, you should not take more than 1-2 hits, and it is hardly unbearable.

As for the damage bonus: what Deathwind said.

[Deathwind]

Maybe lower the accuracy bonus to add some melee resistance?

[Bloax]

Yeah, it seems kinda over-the-top. And increased survivability against pinkies certainly wouldn't hurt.
A superior offense (and no defense) doesn't help in a game of survival. (Unless it's superior ranged offense, of course.)

As for charging sergeants, yes, you can. But 1-2 hits worth of 14-24% of your health is certainly not tolerable a couple of times per map.
Don't forget that orbs heal 20% of the health of a scout/tech, and those are usually not plentiful enough for you to blindly charge into a sergeant.

And then there's also the issue of them being plentiful in the earlier levels, which I do mention as the main case of this thread.

Now's the time I kinda regret not being able to test stuff out.

[Thexare]

Before suggesting changes, consider how they'll affect the (as you admit easier) late game.

And you shouldn't have to charge every Sarge. I've dealt with just as many of them through barrels and infighting as I have through a knife to the face. And sometimes you just have to skip out on 100% kills. It won't kill you, trust me.

It's annoying when you have several of them guarding the exit stairs, but that's a pain in the ass no matter what build you're using in the early game. Well, other than a shotgun build.

[GrimmC]

I have to admit, increased melee resistance doesn't sound like a bad idea. My main problem with Brute is that without being berserked, melee fighting still basically sucks. Even though you hit better, you still get shredded just like any other chump. For any melee-build game, you're basically waiting for the damage resistance to show up, whether through Berserker or Malicious Knives.

Or if not melee resist, perhaps increased melee dodge? Maybe suddenly resisting a pinkie maw doesn't make sense, but I would certainly expect one skilled in the arts of melee to be able to dodge the bugger a little better.

The only problem is that it sounds great in the early game, but I don't know what sort of effect it would have by the end....Hey, I'm no melee builds expert, but it's a thought.

[Bloax]

Well, basically now it's pure luck for me to get as far as PLevel 2-3 in a melee build.

I tried about 8 times yesterday, and all attempts ended up getting screwed really early in the game.
And "thinking about how it would twist the outcomes in the later parts of the game", would be much easier if one could just easily modify things like traits.

Melee resistance would indeed be cool, as that would (hopefully) prevent fighting tough monsters in melee from just tearing you apart.
And thus (hopefully) remove the pure luck part of turning run on and praying for dodges.
It would wreck Malicious Knives, yes. Solution? Reduce Malicious Knives melee resistance bonus! Simple!

[GrimmC]

That is a good call with Malicious Knives. Reduce it to like 10% or perhaps nothing at all.

As I see it, the difficulty in melee is mostly getting close enough to hit the enemy in first place. Once you're there, it shouldn't be nigh-impossible to survive long enough to lay the smackdown. (i.e., melee-ing a Baron without Berserk/Longinus Spear. or AoD for that matter.)

Because you basically must have Berserk to survive, it encourages overreliance on Berserk, Ber/MVm farming, etc. Like I said, that's how I see it, anyway.