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Author Topic: [N!|AoMr|72%|YAVP] Who needs guns? Guns are for wusses! (Marksman Diamond)  (Read 6255 times)

Tormuse

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GrimmC

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Firstly, congrats sir! Well, well done. What's the total elapsed time on your DoomRL file, if you don't mind me asking?

I think this raises a couple of interesting points. Number one, should Marksman Diamond be revised? The strategy clearly doesn't revolve around pistols at all. Tormuse basically said it wasn't any different from Demonic Diamond, perhaps even slightly easier. Does this really impart the spirit of AoM?

Number two, perhaps Berserker and Vampyre should be revised. I like the idea behind them, and I think they're fair in theory--certainly in a AoB run. But when you also have the ability to destroy enemies from a distance in a hybrid build, it does tend to make the game a bit easy...My HNTR Vampyre build was certainly the easiest run I ever did.

Moreover, the fact that it turns Pain Elementals into roving berserk/health stations certainly is a bit much. On the other hand, could argue that this is the possibility you always have in Nightmare!, ala the way Tormuse saved himself earlier. Perhaps we should move discussion to another thread?

But most important, CONGRATS dude.
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Game Hunter

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I think this raises a couple of interesting points. Number one, should Marksman Diamond be revised? The strategy clearly doesn't revolve around pistols at all. Tormuse basically said it wasn't any different from Demonic Diamond, perhaps even slightly easier. Does this really impart the spirit of AoM(r)?
I don't think it's so much a problem with Marksman Diamond as it is that a fist-only run is somehow easier. Fist-only wins should be among the hardest challenges in the game and playing them should be akin to a Pacifism run without the free leveling and nuke (or at least past ITYTD). That said, however, the current requirements for Marksman Diamond are a little ridiculous in the context of a pistol build, so it'll be given more thought in the next release.

Number two, perhaps Berserker and Vampyre should be revised. I like the idea behind them, and I think they're fair in theory--certainly in a AoB run. But when you also have the ability to destroy enemies from a distance in a hybrid build, it does tend to make the game a bit easy...My HNTR Vampyre build was certainly the easiest run I ever did.
Although it's been nerfed a little bit in terms of benefits, zerking is still the same on-off switch that it ever was: add to the fact that it is consistently easier to activate it with Berserker and it's pretty obvious that it is a really strong trait-effect combination, much more so than other combinations. The berserk-related changes were added to 0.9.9.4 at relatively the last minute, and I believe that there are already ideas regarding some more tweaking.

In my opinion, a melee build should be among the hardest out there, in a game where practically all of the fighting is done at a distance. We'll see where it ends up.

Moreover, the fact that it turns Pain Elementals into roving berserk/health stations certainly is a bit much. On the other hand, could argue that this is the possibility you always have in Nightmare!, ala the way Tormuse saved himself earlier. Perhaps we should move discussion to another thread?
It could be as simple as making it so that enemies without experience don't grant benefits such as the ones from Vampyre. (If you prefer to start a thread about it, by my guest.)

Anyway, this is pretty awesome and all but it's really just another Demonic Diamond. When I see someone do this relying ONLY on the pistol, I'll be uniquely impressed.
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Tormuse

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For what it's worth, melee builds are still quite challenging.  Maybe I'm making it look too easy, but this build took me 43 tries to get it right, in which most of them, I died in the first few levels.  The issue I have with Marksman Diamond is that taking away SoG totally cripples any pistol build.  Maybe Marksman Diamond could be changed to "Win Nightmare without using Master Traits?"  (Just a thought)

http://camstudio.org/

Cool, thanks!  I'll look into that.  :)

...but it's really just another Demonic Diamond...

LOL!  I love the fact that Demonic Diamond became passé so quickly!  :D
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
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Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
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Game Hunter

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...but it's really just another Demonic Diamond...
LOL!  I love the fact that Demonic Diamond became passé so quickly!  :D
The Demonic Diamond all by itself is probably the most impressive thing that's ever come out of a player. Whether or not the game's gotten to the point where a fist-only Nightmare! run is possible and/or "easy" (and I use that VERY loosely, thinking back to the old 0.9.9.0 Diamond standards), it's a ridiculous achievement nonetheless. But suppose I came in and made a post about getting, I dunno, Inquisitor Diamond, and then I made a second post with what would be another Inquisitor Diamond (assuming it was possible to get them more than once) using the same method and strategy and stuff. The first Inquisitor Diamond is a "holy crap this is awesome" while the second one is more of a "holy crap this build is consistent". That's the vibe I get from this run. Had you done this successfully with even a unique pistol like the Trigun, I'd have been more excited about it.

But hell, I'm just an old coot that's past his prime recanting "the old days", too busy to attempt Diamonds 'cause I'm investing all my DoomRL time in the wiki and modules. This guy Tormuse is the new Blade, so treat him with all due respect.

By the way, I use CamStudio for my videos. I HIGHLY recommend picking up the CamStudio Lossless Codec (should be at the same website), as it's exactly what it says on the tin.
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raekuul

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Maybe Marksman Diamond could be changed to "Win Nightmare without using Master Traits?"  (Just a thought)
If only I were still good at this game...

Actually, setting Marksman Diamond to be "Clear N! AoMr without Master Traits" would give me reason to experiment again...
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Tormuse

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Or perhaps the Diamond could simply be "Win Nightmare as Explorer?"

LOL!  I love the fact that Demonic Diamond became passé so quickly!  :D
The Demonic Diamond all by itself is probably the most impressive thing that's ever come out of a player. Whether or not the game's gotten to the point where a fist-only Nightmare! run is possible and/or "easy" (and I use that VERY loosely, thinking back to the old 0.9.9.0 Diamond standards), it's a ridiculous achievement nonetheless. But suppose I came in and made a post about getting, I dunno, Inquisitor Diamond, and then I made a second post with what would be another Inquisitor Diamond (assuming it was possible to get them more than once) using the same method and strategy and stuff. The first Inquisitor Diamond is a "holy crap this is awesome" while the second one is more of a "holy crap this build is consistent". That's the vibe I get from this run. Had you done this successfully with even a unique pistol like the Trigun, I'd have been more excited about it.

@Game Hunter, I understand...  I still think it was a funny phrase to use, though.  :)  As for Camstudio, I'll definitely give it a try soon.  I'm in the middle of a run now that's been going since yesterday, but I'll try it out afterward.
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Zalminen

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In my opinion, a melee build should be among the hardest out there, in a game where practically all of the fighting is done at a distance.
Heh, I found it much easier to get Sunrise Iron Fist, Malicious Knives Cross and Pacifism Gold than getting Marksman Silver and I didn't even do any 'lost soul farming'....
Granted, I'm playing at HNTR and it could be that I'm just better at melee tactics.

But damn, that row of diamonds is just impressive!
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raekuul

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Tormuse, the old No Master build and the current Explorer build are my two favorites.

Still, this would require me to legitimately achieve access to Nightmare, which is not happening any time soon.
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Tormuse

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Firstly, congrats sir! Well, well done. What's the total elapsed time on your DoomRL file, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't forget about this question; I just couldn't answer it because I was in the middle of a run at the time.  :)  Total game time for me for this version is 14 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 9 seconds.  (Eek!  Have I really been playing it this much?  I only installed this a month and a half ago!)  :o  Of course, this isn't an accurate reflection of how much time I've spent sitting in front of my computer; I frequently get up to eat and do other things while the game is running, and some of the runs, (most notably, the Ao100 runs) I would leave the game on overnight, or leave it running while I go out for the day, so my actual game time is hard to say, but probably a few days at least.
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Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
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Tormuse

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By the way, I use CamStudio for my videos. I HIGHLY recommend picking up the CamStudio Lossless Codec (should be at the same website), as it's exactly what it says on the tin.

I tried out Camstudio today.  The version 2.6 beta from the above link didn't work, but version 2.0 works quite well except that I don't seem to be able to record games in full-screen mode.  (I just get a recording of a blank screen)  Is there any way around that, or am I just going to have to get used to squinting at a window while I play?  :)

I also tried installing the Lossless codec as you suggested, but all three versions from the site failed to install with nothing more informative than the message, "Installation Failed."

I guess I'm going to have to get a Youtube account so I can post whatever I end up recording.  I'm thinking of going for Elite Platinum for my first recording.  It's tricky to accomplish without being *too* ambitious, and it'll be a good display of strategies I use.
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
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Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
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rchandra

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I suspect you can't record actual console fullscreen, but you can enlarge the window.  (Assuming Windows) right-click on the doomrl shortcut and edit the properties.  in the font section, choose a larger size (I'm using Consolas 36-point font, and the window is around 70-80% of my monitor area - no squinting needed!).  You will probably have to choose a truetype font.
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Tormuse

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Okay, that was simple enough to fix.  :)

Now, the sound recording is giving me trouble. :|  I've tried adjusting every setting I can find; the sound either comes out distorted during playback, or out of sync, or too quiet...  I was hoping to do a recording with a running audio commentary like in the videos Game Hunter posted, but I think I might just stick with a silent recording instead.  It's probably just as well; I just did a fifteen minute silent recording to test it and the file size came to almost 100 Megs!  (much bigger than I expected for no audio)  I typically take a few hours to play through the game, so I'll probably have to break that up into a few separate files.
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Apostle Chaos Lt. General (0.9.9.7)
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Check out my Youtube channel for videos of me playing DRL!  :)
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Deathwind

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I always thought Game Hunter's vids were post commentary as he seems to comment on events before they occur.
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