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[Kinitawowi]

(First post, so tell me if I've screwed up by putting this in the wrong place or asking something that's covered in a guide already, or something.)

So I first found DoomRL a while back, but I've got really into it as of 0.9.9.4. (I love Nethack to bits, and this game is a neat variation of the mechanics with a completely different play style. I like it.) Done a bit of wandering around, and made my way down to the depths a few times, but I don't quite seem to be able to make that final push to an actual win yet. (Mancubi and revenants destroy me too low down, and I haven't yet found a decent armor setup.)

The Nethacker in me has me going for 100% kills on every level, which I'm not sure is the right way forward. (It also has me trying to batter things with big swords, which is probably why my best runs so far have been AoB.)

Notes on current progress:

ITYD: 3 deaths and a max of level 17 on one "ignore everything and bolt to the Hellgate for the Gatekeeper Bronze" run.
HNTR: 219 deaths (almost all first-three-level AoBs) and a max of level 22; the AoB run of my life, but taking a look at the Mortuary on a run without the City Of Skulls was probably an error. (AoB runs have two big hates: arachnotrons and arch-viles. Yeah.) Also had an AoB level 21 run that got careless in the Spider's Lair.
HMP: 190 deaths (I started playing the game on this difficulty, which probably wasn't smart) and a max level of 18; just a plain ol' run that eventually got arch-viled to death.
UV: 25 deaths and a max level of 14; going for the Arena Silver, I eventually found (from a brief browse around the forums) that AoMC was the way to go. A couple of lucky vaults got me a gatling gun before I went in and the rest was history - until I ran out of ammo and armor and got arch-viled. Again.
N!: Not yet.

Badges: Check the sig. The platinum was Armorer.
Medals: Hell Champion, Hell Armorer, and UAC Bronze and Gold (I've read elsewhere that the Silver doesn't stack. It really should; I get the argument for why it doesn't, but... ugh.)
Challenges: Done most of the Bronze badge challenges except Hunter and Masochist. Made level 17 on Marksman and 21 on Shottyman (both HNTR).


So yeah. Any thoughts or advice on how to make the big push towards the end to finally get my first win under my belt?

[Ander Hammer]

What you've done is less helpful than what you do.

You play lots of AoB. Do you gift-drop a lot and know how to move/run?

What problems are you having in particular when you reach Hell?

As things with endgame monsters stand now, it's a matter of learning how to 'take cover' on corners and knowing how to radar shoot, unless you can't use shotguns.

Traits also play a big part in success or failure. What builds are you using?

[Kinitawowi]

I don't gift-drop much unless I'm particularly desperate; it's phenomenally difficult to get out of the very bad habit of just trying to run up and smack things in the face. (The number one thing I need to learn in this game - discretion. My biggest error is usually underestimating how badly something will hurt me ("well, that demon took 9% health off me last time and I've got 20% left so I should be alright for one more hit... right?"), and going for one more shot or reload rather than using medpacks.) Moving is one thing I'm trying to learn to do properly; carelessly racing across a level by holding the arrow key is getting me imped far too often. Dodging is a pain in the ass. And I've started using the occasional tactic run to run up to things, but still not that effectively yet.

Hell deaths mostly just tend to be down to bad planning, I think. Like I said, decent armor is one thing I really haven't got the hang of, and I've yet to cook up something that doesn't get me wiped out by mancubi and revenants as soon as I see them. Being outrun by archviles is also a big problem on AoB runs (and a marginally lesser problem on others, but archviles are still the main source of hell death).

AoB runs are so far all built on Marine Bru-Bad-Bru-Ber-Iro-MVm, then maybe aiming for WK after that to try and mod up something; I've never quite decided whether to swap the Bru and Bad at the start (the knockback from sergeants is hellish in the early game; I've never found throwing knives at them effective enough to bother with). As a Marine I could probably stand to ditch the Iro and replace it with something more useful (probably another Bru). I usually skip the Arena in favour of an easier run at the Chained Court, and then go knife-chainsaw-Longinus. If I've got an envirosuit on me I'll always take on the Armory; the Shambler is incredibly easy if you've got good health, Ber and a chainsaw (on HNTR, the only real difficulty there is approaching the arachnotrons).

All other runs - particularly non-challenge - tend to rely mainly on shotguns (modding up a tactial shotgun is usually my highest priority for any such game), for which I aim at MAD (usually Bad-Rel-Rel-SM-TaN or such). If I'm undecided, I'll go Bad-Iro-Tan-Iro-Tan-Iro-MSv, which is probably actually crap. (I pretty much exclusively play Marines.)

[raekuul]

carelessly racing across a level by holding the arrow key

THIS... so much.

Fun fact: It's entirely possible to get killed in a game where your HP is locked at 100... by doing exactly this. The game is running so fast that the locking program can't keep up when you do this, and Locking Programs are supposed to be so ultra-fast that this can't happen. In other words, use comma for that sort of thing.

[Kinitawowi]

THIS... so much.

Fun fact: It's entirely possible to get killed in a game where your HP is locked at 100... by doing exactly this. The game is running so fast that the locking program can't keep up when you do this, and Locking Programs are supposed to be so ultra-fast that this can't happen. In other words, use comma for that sort of thing.

Nethack might have called this Lessons Learned The Hard Way once upon a time. :p "Yeah, I'm not commaing it across the Armory to get the stuff round the back of the lab, there's too much leftover ammo in the middle of the map and it'll take forever. I'll just hold left..." *gets eaten in the back by the last lost soul I missed*

[Kinitawowi]

UPDATE: First win!!!

Okay, this was just funny. Figured I'd give it a pop just to see how it played out and give me some ideas for Berserk runs, and... well. Check the other forum for details...

[Thomas]

When you're not fighting anything and just going from A to B, try to move exclusively diagonally. It'll partially supress the urge to just hold the key down and if you do get caught by an enemy, you're more likely to sidestep their shot.

If your problem is revenants and mancubi, Tough as Nails will not help you. Unless your master trait requires TaN, just go for Ironman 3 instead. Red Armour, however, is a godsend against them for the fire resistance, and +4 damage reduction is nice too. You should pick up almost every red armour you find and mod them with Bulk for staying power or Agility to almost totally remove the movespeed penalty.

On the subject of traits, badass is great, but not as great as ironman. Taking it second on a melee character for the knockback resistance is a good idea, but I'd get it as my 4th trait if I was building to survivalist.

Unless you're building a pure shotgun build (Army of Darkness) or a pure melee build (Vampyre), you'll want a rocket launcher and/or BFG for the really nasty stuff. Accuracy will be a problem with the rocket launcher so either make a micro launcher (2 tech mods, heavily reduces firing delay, reloading delay and chance to miss), or get eagle eye after you get survivalist, or aim at walls near enemies.

[Game Hunter]

"Yeah, I'm not commaing it across the Armory to get the stuff round the back of the lab, there's too much leftover ammo in the middle of the map and it'll take forever. I'll just hold left..." *gets eaten in the back by the last lost soul I missed*

There's an option in config.lua ("RunOverItems") that specifically allows you to adjust the run command so that items don't stop you while running. You may want to set this to true if this is the reason you don't run as much as you should. (For other config explanations, use this Wiki page.)

In any case, I suggest you play on the easiest difficulty and work your way up. The real goal in the game is to prepare yourself for the boss levels of Hellgate and Phobos Arena: anything else is extra and should be treated as such.

[Matt_S]

When I started off, I was dying on ITYTD frequently and early.  I had the "kill everything" attitude back then, but I finally got my first victory when I started running through the levels in hell heading for the stairs.  Since then I've gotten back into the "kill everything" attitude, but I can now win on HNTR with decent frequency.  I suggest you do the same: start by figuring out what it takes to win, then figure out how to kill everything in the process :)

[Sambojin]

My number one cause of stupid deaths is trying to do all the special levels regardless. There's quite a few special levels where the rewards don't nearly match the cost of getting them. The amount of times I've died in the Mortuary is staggering, and I really didn't need any of the items in there to take down cybie.

For the good armours question, a bulk modded red is good general purpose (if somewhat slow) armour. It makes armour shards easier to use, and you keep 4 protection a lot longer. A power modded red is handy for scary areas and you have the option to slap another power on (for slow but indestructable 3 armour rating), or a bulk for a bit more lasting armour (for WKs).

Where you should be in the game? I'm not sure, but you should have a better player record than me. Mine really is bad.

[GrimmC]

Yeah...I would note that there's a lot of special levels I don't even bother trying unless I have a very strong build...The Wall, The Vaults, The Mortuary, and most of all Spider's Lair...a sign of good balance imo :-)

[Sambojin]

Unless it's an AoS, AoB or AoMr run, I'll always do the Wall. The backpack is a god-send and the ML one of the best "guaranteed" weapons in the game. Even on UV (with Barons a-plenty) it's worth it. Heaps of XP, heaps of rockets, a great weapon and better ammo capacities. I tend to use the ML more often and more effectively than the BFG,  and 14 shots an ammo slot is nice. Four in the weapon with excellent accuracy? Who needs WK for the tac RL when this thing does it all anyway (needing to reload after four rockets is a show of poor tactics or a lack of modding IMO).

Any non-melee runs tend to do the Arena, Court and Wall. Early game mods and weapons. Ag's for chainfire/pistols, RL/BP/ML for everything else/specials. Even a Vault raid if you actually want to. Those three levels are pretty much the "Yes I can kill bruisers/cybie/anything" for a normal run. You usually don't lose too much for doing them in virtually any difficulty than N! And you gain so much that a few medi-packs wasted isn't too much to ask.

I've died so many times in this game, to so many stupid "duh, a medi-pack or a better weapon/reload" moments, I wonder if I should just do a ML run ASAP. At least it hits.

[Kinitawowi]

I started doing a hell of a lot better at AoB runs the moment I realised the Arena was all but pointless; it costs far more health than you gain, the Court gets you a weapon that'll last you two thirds of the game anyway, and the Arena Master's Staff is nice if you're chasing uniques but otherwise the Lance is easy enough to obtain and perfectly fine for the endgame.

Conversely, my best AoB runs ended in either The Mortuary (the armour would be nice but there's nothing vital there for a berseker) or the Spider Pits (more due to carelessness than brute force, but still - no real need to visit on a melee run).

The Wall is a level I habitually skip altogether. I'd love the backpack and the missile launcher, but most of my characters are too ordinary trait-wise by then to not get pasted.

[Zecks]

Speaking of guaranteed, what's everyone's opinion on Halls of Carnage?

IMO it's still wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too easy? I swear I've not once died there. It's practically a safe haven with lots of free exp, tons of shells, a bunch of rockets and a literally guaranteed BFG.

Except maybe on AoMs and AoP where you don't have the free 600% extra health (and on AoMs you might enter the level at really low health). But even then basically the only thing you have to watch out for are the sergeants at the beginning.
On the right side you can just
and slip out quickly if you need to. (you won't need to because of the lava. it's usually only halfway through when i finish the level)

[GrimmC]

Speaking of guaranteed, what's everyone's opinion on Halls of Carnage?

IMO it's still wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too easy? I swear I've not once died there. It's practically a safe haven with lots of free exp, tons of shells, a bunch of rockets and a literally guaranteed BFG.

Yeahhh...I've been thinking the same thing for awhile now, but I didn't want to open my mouth and make life harder. :-( I don't mind that it's usually doable, because, like the Chainsaw, the BFG is sort of an iconic Doom weapon. But there's a difference between doable and "don't even have to try." It could probably use some more tweaking. (Though I'm not really sure how.)

On a side note, I actually like the level quite a bit..it somehow feels like an actual Doom level to me. Which is part of why I've been remiss to say anything about changing it.