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[rchandra]

Because of:
a) A player with a rocket launcher at this point probably cleared Hell's Arena and is thus not in chained court (normal)
b) the berserk packs no longer make it completely trivial to get in and out of the rooms behind the lava

I think it would be nice to move the mods from the corners into the rooms guarded by caco/HK/Baron.

[Game Hunter]

I was thinking about possibilities for a redesign. Here's one draft:

Code: [Select]

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#......#...h...########&..h....#==##########==#....h......##....##....#......#
#.>.h..#.......########........···+·^····^·+···...........##...B##....#h.....#
#......#..........h............#==#··@·····#==#...........##....##....#......#
#......#.......................#==#····\···#==#..........&##....##....#......#
#.....h#.......########........···+·^····^·+···...........##...B##....#..h.>.#
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###............########......###==##|h..h|##==###.......................h..###
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It's pretty simple: throw levers to release the "cages". Once all three are thrown, the middle reward-cages open up. Of course, a player with enough health (or potentially explosives since there's little reason to make things permanent here) could get the stuff without all the hassle.

This is just an example: I'm trying to figure out a good design for early-game. (And if you turn your head, it looks like a Tiki-man!)

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Possible deathtrap for phase device. Either mark the inner floors as NOTELE or add levers also inside.

[Game Hunter]

Possible deathtrap for phase device. Either mark the inner floors as NOTELE or add levers also inside.

Assuming this is a good candidate for the revised CC, I'll definitely keep it in mind. Not that phases are particularly common on by dlvl5, but we certainly don't want any impossible scenarios. That aside, I'd like to hear if anyone likes this setup or if they'd prefer something different (and, if you can, explain what you'd like to see instead).

While we're on the subject of special level revisions, I do want to show the map draft I made for a potentially radicalized version of Spider's Lair: once I have access to my personal copy, I'll display it so everyone can see. (Kornel's pretty skeptical but I believe it will provide a far more interesting dynamic to the otherwise-empty landscape.)

[tinyrodent]

Possible deathtrap for phase device. Either mark the inner floors as NOTELE or add levers also inside.

If that is a concern, then don't some other maps need attention as well? I'm thinking of The Wall specifically. But if tele is prohibited there, it won't make the Brick Silver Badge any easier... unless there is some trick I haven't learned...?

[byrel]

I've always wondered if there was some way back across the wall in AoB/AoMr if a phase takes you across. I've never managed to get across in either (bad luck with phases).

[Deathwind]

I still think the wall should just fall apart when the monsters are dead (or put a lever next to the backpack)

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

I still think the wall should just fall apart when the monsters are dead (or put a lever next to the backpack)

I thought the wall did collapse when all enemies were killed?

(Then again, it's been a fair while since I played last, so my memory isn't exactly clear on the subject.)

[tinyrodent]

I thought the wall did collapse when all enemies were killed?

It definitely doesn't in 0.9.9.5, can't speak for previous versions.

[ParaSait]

I thought the wall did collapse when all enemies were killed?

I... never noticed that. o.O

[Tormuse]

I thought the wall did collapse when all enemies were killed?

I've played every version since 0.9.9.1 and it's never done that in any game I played.  There was some talk of making that happen a while back, but I don't think it ever happened.

[Ander Hammer]

http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,4369.0.html


pretty please.

[UnderAPaleGreySky]

http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,4369.0.html


pretty please.

Ah, I remember reading that a while back. I guess that's what's muddling my memory.

[Zalminen]

I was thinking about possibilities for a redesign. Here's one draft:

Well, it's certainly an improvement over the current one. No more wasting two medpacks just to clear the northern and southern room in AoB.

[Gamer-man]

i assumed the agility mods were awards for beating hell's arena or for finding a rocket, this layout cuts the incentive for beating hell's arena drastically.  i'm not sure if that is what you were going for or not, but it is something to take into account (since beating it has a few negative to work with as well)

[MaiZure]

i assumed the agility mods were awards for beating hell's arena or for finding a rocket, this layout cuts the incentive for beating hell's arena drastically.  i'm not sure if that is what you were going for or not, but it is something to take into account (since beating it has a few negative to work with as well)

Agreed

[Solarn]

i assumed the agility mods were awards for beating hell's arena or for finding a rocket, this layout cuts the incentive for beating hell's arena drastically.  i'm not sure if that is what you were going for or not, but it is something to take into account (since beating it has a few negative to work with as well)

Well, beating Hell's Arena is still required if you want to get the Arena Master's Staff and it gives nice loot all on its own, so I can't really see your point here.

[Deathwind]

I thought the rewards from hell's arena were the rewards for beating hell's arena...

If you feel that strongly about it you could randomize the mods for this version to nerf the reward.

[raekuul]

Just how useful are Agility packs, anyway? How do they compare to other mod-packs in terms of usefulness?

[Deathwind]

2 agility mod equals any of

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A-modded chaingun AND A-modded plasma rifle w/MAc
Tac boots
Tac armor
2/3s of an assault rifle
1/2 of mods needed for pair of speed loader pistols

[Gamer-man]

I thought the rewards from hell's arena were the rewards for beating hell's arena...

If you feel that strongly about it you could randomize the mods for this version to nerf the reward.

i am probably biased from playing AoMr where the rewards for being hell's arena arn't all that great compaired to the chance of death, and most of the point is to get the 2 agilities mods in UnCC.

[Solarn]

2 agility mod equals any of

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A-modded chaingun AND A-modded plasma rifle w/MAc
Tac boots
Tac armor
2/3s of an assault rifle
1/2 of mods needed for pair of speed loader pistols

Can also be used in

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

focused double shotgun
environmental boots
piercing chainsaw
ballistic armor
cerberus armor/boots

[Bloax]

The coolest reward for AoSh would by far be two power mods. :P
Because you know, elephant gun, finally.

[spacedust]

OT, but elephant gun seems like such a waste of 2 power mods... I mean, power mods being so rare and all. The unmodded double shotty always felt like a much more powerful beast compared to the elephant gun.

[Game Hunter]

i assumed the agility mods were awards for beating hell's arena or for finding a rocket, this layout cuts the incentive for beating hell's arena drastically.

You know what I first thought when I saw the second layout of the Chained Court? "Hey, cool, now we'll have to think critically about whether or not we want to clear Hell's Arena, because it forces us to deal with a greater challenge on an otherwise-easy map!" And then nothing changed, because the lack of rocket launcher made the old CC too inferior. Needless to say I'd like to balance it out so that the incentives go in both directions.

And hey, if you (that is, everyone, not just the quotee) would actually like to comment on the map itself (does it look like a good idea? what could improve it?) then I'm all ears.

[Deathwind]

I think the proposed map would be a good change but do we really need 5 zerk effects in this one?

[Game Hunter]

I think the proposed map would be a good change but do we really need 5 zerk effects in this one?

Part of the use of the normal Chained Court is that you can go in there and snag all the zerks and the chainsaw, then leave. It's useful for pacifists and berserkers and stuff. We could play around with the balance but I don't mind keeping the level "easy".

I never got around to posting my sketch for the possible Spider's Lair layout. Here it is!

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...A.......#.........A........A.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.A.........A.....#......A....
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It's very...um...different. Additionally it doesn't mesh well with tiles (but I imagine we'll make a cave tileset soon that will make diagonals work, since they appear oh-so-often in that settings). I've actually played it a couple times and the change in how one has to play the level is quite interesting. My hope is that it's better than the completely-open layout that already exists, but I'm open to tweaking it (or scrapping for other possibilities).

[Deathwind]

I like it but could you open up the walls just a bit?  This looks like it might bring out every single issue with LOS and targeting in one map...

edit: also make the 4 cover walls angled as their current placement offers almost no cover

[GrimmC]

I like both designs quite a bit. The CC revision is interesting and feels very "Doomish." One confusing point though: Will mod packs be guaranteed even in the normal map? (i.e., without beating Hell's Arena)

Spider's Lair revision is also pretty cool. I always thought the original was rather bland. This one is actually exciting. There's no way for me to predict how it would play though.

Not sure how much more feedback I can really provide, but both look excellent to me. :-D