Print

Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Blade]

I want to post here my archievements in Nightmare! and i can say that even i'm confused and don't know, how to deal with this.
I think that the best chance to beat Nightmare! is to play it on AoH, because surviving 12 levels there is extremely hard, but surviving 24 levels there is (extremely hard) * 2. So i had thinking from this point.
First:
--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Blade, level 10 Demon Captain, killed by a imp(*)
 on level 6 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 47937 turns and scored 168528 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 733 out of 803 hellspawn. (91%)
 He held his right to remain violent.
 He was an Angel of Haste!


-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health -2/70   Experience 40483/10
  ToHit +9  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 2)
    Eagle Eye      (Level 3)
    Cateye         (Level 2)
    Intuition      (Level 3)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] pistol (2d4) [0/6]
    [b] 10mm ammo (x60)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [g] shotgun shell

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    316 former humans
    59 former sergeants
    28 former captains
    317 demons(**)
    1 lost soul
    1 baron of hell

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 4 he battled through a maze of rooms.
 On level 6 he battled through the complex.
 There he finally was killed by a imp.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 24 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 18 of those were killed.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 4 killed the bastard and survived.
 2 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


Code: [Select]

You reload the chaingun with 10mm ammo.

 ##############################################################################
 #??????????.||}||||||?|||}??}}???????••??????????????????????????????#???????#
 #??????????}}}|}}|}}}||}}}}}??}??????••••••??????????????????????????????????#
 #????????????=}????|}?}?|}|?}?}??????•?•••}}}}???????????????????????????????#
 #????????????==?????????????#}?}|???•?•••••####????????#????????????#????????#
 #???????????===?????????•????|}?|•??????•?••?•???}?}??????????•??????????????#
 #????????????==??????????•????|}}}##••??••?•••#•##}}}????????????###?????????#
 #????????????????????????????•?}}|•?•?•@?•?•?•••?}}}}}???????????????#???????#
 #????????????>????????????????}||}}•??•••••••?•?•}}}}????????????????#???????#
 #?????????????????????????????}}|•|}••••?•••???}?}}}}}•??????????????????????#
 ####???????#?##???????????????|}}••?•••c•••••••}h}}}}•?•?????????????????????#
 #?????????????????????????????•••?•?••••?••?•••}}•}??????????????????????????#
 #?????????????????????????????•?•?••?•••••••?•?•?????????????????????#???????#
 #??????????????????????????????••?•••••••••?•????????????????????????#???????#
 #??????????????????????????????••??••?•?•••••}}}|}???????????????????????????#
 #?????????????????????????????????••???•?••??}}|}|}??????????•???????????????#
 #???????????????????????===??????????##•#????•######????????????????????}????#
 #????????????????????????===???????????????????•.}}??????????????????????????#
 #????????????????????????===???????????????????•}}}??????????????????????????#
 ##############################################################################
 Blade                      Armor : none                     Phobos Base  Lev2
 Health: 54%  Exp: 10/0%    Weapon: chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
 coward

(*)All my 10 levels i archieved on level 2(starting level in AoH) by killing one demon 317 times(**).
You can see him on the picture in the middle. All this weapons - are from 2 ressurecting former humans, and all this blood are from the demon.))
My first strategy was archieving as high level, as i can get by killing easy monsters, that are ressurecting. And i think that it is quite nice strategy, but it has opposite side - it is too long and boring to kill one demon and two former humans. What killed me? Bad luck. On level 4 i runt through stairs, that are just was next to me. But on level 6 i realized myself in a room, where after several turns all monsters from all over the map headed. So soon i found myself not alone in this room, but with company of 2 BoHs, 1 Pain Elemental and a lots of little creatures(demons, imps). 2 medikits haven't saved me.

Second:
--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Blade, level 3 Demon Captain, killed by a arch-vile
 on level 10 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 4975 turns and scored 17860 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 49 out of 187 hellspawn. (26%)
 Who gave him the ticket to hell, anyway?
 He was an Angel of Haste!

 He stormed the Chained Court.

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health -2/50   Experience 3052/3
  ToHit +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +3

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Eagle Eye      (Level 2)
    Brute          (Level 1)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] pistol (2d4) [6/6]
    [b] chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [c] 10mm ammo (x28)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] shotgun shell (x17)
    [f] rocket (x10)
    [g] rocket (x2)

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    10 former humans
    7 former sergeants
    5 former captains
    5 imps
    4 demons
    2 lost souls
    3 cacodemons
    1 pain elemental
    2 arch-viles

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 4 he battled through a maze of rooms.
 On level 6 he found a hellish city.
 He then stormed the Chained Court.
 On level 8 he found a hellish city.
 On level 10 he battled through the complex.
 There he finally was killed by a arch-vile.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 25 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 19 of those were killed.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 4 killed the bastard and survived.
 2 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Second strategy was just to run for luck. This tactic can be successfull, if you will be luck enough to find  RL, some large medikits(or just one thermie)) to fight Cybie, and you will survive 12 levels. I can be successfull, if on level 10 there won't be 3 AVs on every side(I haven't noticed, but imho they are ressurecting too. OMG!!).

Some specialities of Nightmare! are here,at the bottom of the page.

So, post here any suggestions, how to make it. I know, that there are only few people on this forum, who can play Nightmare!, but just write your ideas and thoughts, and i will say, how possible are they.

[Malek Deneith]

One thing that comes to my mind - try taking Tough as Nails. This trait can make more diffrence than Ironman IMO.

[Blade]

Sorry for too many urls, but read this. I was written this on UV, and on Nightmare! on level 4 you will hardly find even human sergeant, generally there are HKs, Cacodemons and BoHs. So imho reducing their damage by 3 points isn't good idea. But i can try it.

[DaEezT]

I want to post here my archievements in Nightmare! and i can say that even i'm confused and don't know, how to deal with this.

FINALLY!! My prayers have been answered :p

Well, the only thing that comes to my mind is dropping the whole Intuition thing. The enemies respawn anyway so sniping from a safe distance won't help. You should go all out defense wise. IIRC meds on Nightmare! work double like they do on ITYTD so maxing Ironman asap and adding some Tan to it would be my best guess. After that... dunno. One look at your kill count makes reloader look like a good choice :p

Edit: Spelling

[Blade]

Second man is telling me to raise TaN. Maybe this will help a little. What are you thinking about max Helrunner to run through levels?

[Edit] And one more - there are very few powerups and medikits placed on levels.(( So every hp is vital.

[Fingerzam]

Because of the high damage output of enemies, I think Hellrunner after IM is at least worth a try. You might try to get LS (well, as I don't know how fast the monsters resurrect on N! (have to still complete Impatience, too much time spent on AoM), I don't know if it's possible to get past that demon room, maybe with a phase device?).

Also, plasma for BFG shouldn't be a problem since you could get unlimited plasma from a commando (well, only if there are no other monster resurrecting near by).

Pain elementals didn't leave corpses, right? If true, you should probably get the 2 BFGs from City of Skulls, though there will probably be a shitload of pain elementals, but you can kill them in building other then those two containing BFGs with missiles (yeah, I know this is quite scummy, but we are talking about N!)

[Blade]

well, as I don't know how fast the monsters resurrect on N!

After some time of player's existance on level they begin to ressurect nearly instantly.

Pain elementals didn't leave corpses, right?

No, they leave corpses and ressurects as well... And AVs too...:-/

I think that almost all special levels are so hard on Nightmare!(except CC, and Unholy Cathedral) that they are not worth be entered.

I don't know if it's possible to get past that demon room, maybe with a phase device?

Is there are any way of controlled use of phase device?
Anyway, i think, that if you will make it that far with Brute and Berserk perks, then you will be able to run through room with demons in Berserk mode, and even kill AoD.

[DaEezT]

On a different note: Do enemies that have been killed by a nuke also leave behind corpses that resurrect?
I know that nukes are not common but maybe they are worth being used on normal levels on N! since the monster resurrection on N! does not make Cybie harder.

[Fingerzam]

I don't know if it's possible to get past that demon room, maybe with a phase device?

Is there are any way of controlled use of phase device?
Anyway, i think, that if you will make it that far with Brute and Berserk perks, then you will be able to run through room with demons in Berserk mode, and even kill AoD.

Well, I've heard of using phase device at UC twice, and both times the marine was teleported next to AoD, so it might just be a coincidence, but I've come to think that it might not be. Requires additional testing, though.

[Blade]

I had already thought about playing Nightmare in melee. Just to run to CC, and then to UC. But after realizing, how many monstres are there, i gave up such idea.

[Valkeera]

Have you tried Nightmare! on Angel of Darkness [AoDr] challenge? I imagine that must be real creepy! :-)

[Blade]

Have you tried Nightmare!(tm)) at all? It is real creepy itself!))

[DaEezT]

My new Ultimate Nightmare! Strategy (tm): Pull levers!

There is a lever here.
You pull the lever... You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the
scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear
the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear
the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You
hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You
hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul!
You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul!
You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed
soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed
soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a
freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a
freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream
of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream
of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the
scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the
scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear
the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear
the rumbling of stone! There is a lever here.

[Blade]

Another side of this strategy:

Code: [Select]

There is a lever here.
You pull the lever... Floor floods with acid! Arrgh! Acid! Arrgh! Acid!
Arrgh! Acid! Arrgh! Acid! You hear the scream of a freed soul! Arrgh!
Acid! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a
freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream
of a freed soul! Arrgh! Acid! Arrgh! Acid! You hear the scream of a
freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream
of a freed soul! Arrgh! Acid! You die!


[DaEezT]

lmao :D

[DaEezT]

I just found a bug/limitation of the engine that makes permanently clearing a level on Nightmare! possible: water.
I pulled a water lever and flooded the entire level with water. Corpses disappear/don't appaear on water tiles so enemies killed on water never respawn :D

##############################################################################
#=?======?========================================?==#=====?=?===============#
#========????###???????#?#?#?########?????????????????===?=?=?===============#
#===?==?=?========?==============#========?=?========?=====???===============#
#========??======================#===================?=====?=?====?===?======#
#========?===========?===========#======?============?=====?=?===============#
#========?===================?===?====???============#====??=?===============#
#========??=====?================•=====?=========?===#=====?=?==========?====#
#????####?======================>?===================?=====?=#=========?=====#
#========?====================?==?================?==?=====?=?===============#
#========?=======================?===================?=====#######?????????###
#========?======================??=============?==@==?=====#=========?=======#
#=?======?================?======?========?=======?==?=?===?=================#
#========?=======================?===================?=====#=================#
#=====??=??======================?===================?=?===#=================#
#========?====?===========?==?===?========?======?===?=====?=================#
#=?==?===?=======================#========?==========?=====######?#??????????#
#========?=======================?===================#=====#=================#
#========?=======================?==?====?===========#=====#=========?===?===#
##############################################################################

[Valkeera]

Well, at least the water's good for something... 8-)

[Blade]

Wow, bows before DaEezT!! I knew it, but haven't realized, that i can use switches to such deed! Then Intuition level 2 anyway is most required perk in Nightmare! I need to try it! Only one problem - imho, later levels rarely have levers, that floods level with water, generally they floods it with lava or acid.

[DaEezT]

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5 Beta 2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 DaEezT, level 7 Cacodemon Captain, killed by a lost soul
 on level 6 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 35223 turns and scored 77660 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 381 out of 475 hellspawn. (80%)


-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/80   Experience 17559/7
  ToHit +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 3)
    Tough as nails (Level 3)
    Reloader       (Level 1)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   blue armor [0/2] (10%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [2/2] (79%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] 10mm ammo (x75)
    [b] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] weapon magazine mod

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    56 former humans
    47 former sergeants
    66 former captains
    58 imps
    54 demons
    13 lost souls
    8 cacodemons
    9 hell knights
    5 former commandos
    8 pain elementals

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 He started his journey on the suface of Phobos.
 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 3 he battled through a maze of rooms.
 On level 4 he battled through the complex.
 On level 5 he battled through the complex.
 On level 6 he battled through the complex.
 There he finally was killed by a lost soul.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Argh!!! Acid!
 Argh!!! Acid!
 Argh!!! Acid!
 Argh!!! Acid!
 You open the door. Argh!!! Acid!
 The hell knight fires! Boom! Your blue armor is damaged! The pain
 elemental spawns lost souls! Argh!!! Acid!
 Argh!!! Acid!
 Argh!!! Acid!
 The pain elemental spawns lost souls! Argh!!! Acid!
 The lost soul hits you. The lost soul hits you. Argh!!! Acid!
 The lost soul hits you. Argh!!! Acid!
 The lost soul hits you. Argh!!! Acid!
 The lost soul hits you. Argh!!! Acid!
 The lost soul hits you. You die!...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 174 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 161 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 3 couldn't handle the stress and commited a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 6 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Stupid respawning pain elementals crated a zillion souls and there was a huge room filled with acid in the middle of the level :/
On level 2 I killed two captains and then kept spawncamping them till I reached level 4 (they drop ammo) . After that I moved on. Tan(3) worked well agains commandos and captains with their auto fire but Im is defenitely more important.

Another thing came to me while playing. Maybe one should focus on chaingun/plasma on nightmare because you can 'harvest' them by spancamping humans. Of course the cells can be used for the BFG later but imo it could be a good idea to ignore rockets.

But I think it's possible to win Nightmare! if you a) spawncamp as much as possible early on to gain all the useful traits and b) take at least brute(2), berserker(1) and kill the angel for the spear. I killed the Angel with only that in my last AoD game.

[DaEezT]

Last one for today.
--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5 Beta 2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 DaEezT, level 7 Cacodemon Captain, killed by a former commando
 on level 8 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 34349 turns and scored 84332 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 359 out of 530 hellspawn. (68%)


-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health -2/60   Experience 19045/7
  ToHit +3  ToDmg Ranged +1  ToDmg Melee +1

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 1)
    Tough as nails (Level 3)
    Son of a bitch (Level 1)
    Reloader       (Level 1)
    Eagle Eye      (Level 1)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] 10mm ammo (x85)
    [b] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    51 former humans
    31 former sergeants
    73 former captains
    57 imps
    51 demons
    20 lost souls
    16 cacodemons
    2 barons of hell
    15 hell knights
    2 former commandos
    2 pain elementals

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 He started his journey on the suface of Phobos.
 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 3 he battled through the complex.
 On level 4 he battled through the complex.
 On level 5 he battled through the complex.
 On level 6 he battled through the complex.
 On level 7 he battled through the complex.
 On level 8 he battled through the complex.
 There he finally was killed by a former commando.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 the lost soul. The lost soul dies. The arachnotron hits you.
 The former commando fires! Boom! You are hit! The missile hits the
 cacodemon. Boom! Boom! You are hit! The arachnotron fires! You are
 hit! You are hit! Boom! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the
 scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear
 the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! The former
 sergeant dies. The lost soul dies. There is a shotgun (6d3) [0/1]
 lying here.
 The arachnotron fires! You are hit! The missile hits the arachnotron. You
 are hit! You are hit! You are hit! The arachnotron fires! Boom! The
 missile hits the former commando. Boom! The missile hits the former
 commando. Boom! Boom!
 The arachnotron fires! You are hit! You are hit! The missile hits the
 former commando. The missile hits the former commando. The former
 commando fires! You are hit! You die!...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 185 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 172 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 3 couldn't handle the stress and commited a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 6 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I tried a combination of Soab/Ee/Reloader to make the chaingun more useful but I'm not sure how much it really helped. Tan(3) is defenitely very useful since you'll never be able to explore the entile level to look for armor. Im is not needed right from the start because meds heal double like they do on ITYTD. Apart from that it's pure luck really :p

Edit: Spelling. It'S late and I am Nightmare!ed D:

[DaEezT]

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5 Beta 2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 DaEezT, level 8 Cacodemon Captain, killed by a cacodemon
 on level 7 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 39725 turns and scored 99836 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 461 out of 591 hellspawn. (78%)


-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/70   Experience 22808/8
  ToHit +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +3

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 2)
    Hellrunner     (Level 2)
    Tough as nails (Level 3)
    Brute          (Level 1)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   green armor [0/1] (46%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [2/2] (99%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] blue armor [2/2] (74%)
    [b] blue armor [2/2] (100%)
    [c] chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [d] 10mm ammo (x60)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [j] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [k] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [l] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [m] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [n] 10mm ammo (x100)

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    54 former humans
    112 former sergeants
    112 former captains
    36 imps
    86 demons
    13 lost souls
    8 cacodemons
    1 baron of hell
    18 hell knights
    1 arachnotron
    3 former commandos

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 He started his journey on the suface of Phobos.
 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 3 he battled through a maze of rooms.
 On level 4 he battled through the complex.
 On level 5 he battled through the complex.
 On level 6 he battled through the complex.
 On level 7 he battled through the complex.
 There he finally was killed by a cacodemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 demon. The demon dies. The missile hits the demon. The missile hits
 the demon. Boom!
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the demon. The missile hits the
 demon. Boom! The missile hits the demon. The missile hits the demon.
 The demon hits you.
 Your weapon is empty.
 Your weapon is empty.
 You reload the chaingun with 10mm ammo. The demon hits you. The demon hits
 you. The demon hits you.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the demon. The missile hits the
 demon. The missile hits the demon. The missile hits the demon. The
 missile hits the demon. The demon dies.
 You reload the chaingun with 10mm ammo. You are hit!
 You open the door. You are hit! Your green armor is damaged! You
 die!...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 189 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 176 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 3 couldn't handle the stress and commited a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 6 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I was doing so well....

You open the door. You are hit! Your green armor is damaged! You
 die!...

opened a door and before the game even had a chance to draw what was behind that door I saw 3 explosions (1 from cacodemon and 2 from barrels) and was dead on the spot...

[Blade]

That's why it is good to have Intuition: to always know, what is behind next door.

[Malek Deneith]

One thing that a man learns from ADOM - always stand a little to the side before opening a door xP

[DaEezT]

Here are a few ideas/theories from me:

1. You'll only be able to level up until you reach dlvl 10 at which point AVs are likely to show up. Killing things after that will be almost impossible because of the huge number of though monsters. Even using rocket launcher and BFG won't help. Both have a low per slot ammo count and both destroy items on the ground around the monster. In addition all the late game monsters have splash as well so collectiong ammo won't be an option and they don't drop any items either.

2. You can level up as long as your patience lasts on dlvl 2! On dlvl 2 the only monsters are humans, sergeants, captains, imps, demons and souls. All except the demons die from one chaingun attack (5 hits) and humans and captains drop ammo so you can just keep on spawncamping till you reach a high enough level.

3. The only realistic victory option is the Spear because it's overpowered :p

4. If N! works like all the other difficulties then Cybie and AoD shouldn't be any tougher so the main problem is suriving the normal levels.

5. Angel of Haste might actually be the ideal way to beat N! (or AoH the ideal way to beat N! :p). Normally you need to find 23 exits to reach cybie (level1 is easy so it doesn't count). AoH halves that but you can still spawncamp on dlvl 3 and the toughest enemies there are a few cacodemons (really only a few).


Observations:

- Enemies don't respawn if you or another monster stand on their corpse.
- Corpses are 'swallowed' by water (see my earlier post)


Hints:

Humans (all kinds) and knights/barons are easy to control because they like guarding levers/items and the later is easily 'created' by killing a few humsn a dozen times or so.


My personal target build for N! is:
Ironman (3)
Tough as nails(3)
Hellrunner(3)
Brute(2)
Berserker(1)
Total level: 12
The idea is to kill the AoD and then just finish off Cybie with 2 hits.

I'll also give AoH on N! a try now.

[Blade]

5. Angel of Haste might actually be the ideal way to beat N! (or AoH the ideal way to beat N! :p). Normally you need to find 23 exits to reach cybie (level1 is easy so it doesn't count). AoH halves that but you can still spawncamp on dlvl 3 and the toughest enemies there are a few cacodemons (really only a few).

Hmm, read once more my first post in this topic. There i said that AoH's first level is dlvl 2. On dlvl 2 there are only humans, imps, demons and lost souls. And if you take a look at my first mortem once more, you will see that 10th level is possible to reach there.

Some hints that i can make after dozens of deaths while leveling on dlvl 2:
Once you spawned, first you objective is to find chaingunner and kill him 3 or more times to get enough ammo. At this time try to avoid demons as long as possible, they die only after 5-7 hits of your pistol. Collect every medikit you see. Leave health globes for worse times(when you will have approx 20% hp). I have noticed that usefull items very often are placed near barrels, so don't be lazy, move barrels out of globes. I haven't found shotgun usefull here, because to not loose health you must snipe enemies, and with shotgun it is not possible. When you got chaingun, the easiest exp is demons. They don't fire and they grants maximum exp among monsters on dlvl 2(exceps lost souls, but lost souls disappears after death, so no spawncamping can be used on them). And they can kill you only if you make a really stupid thing, or it they are more than 2.

Observations:

- Enemies don't respawn if you or another monster stand on their corpse.
- Corpses are 'swallowed' by water (see my earlier post)

Two more things to add:
- Monster's bodies are not disappearing if a barrel placed on them. They only swap to each other.
- Monster's bodies disappeares if on already existing corpse dies another monster. And then ressurects only last died monster.

My personal target build for N! is:
Ironman (3)
Tough as nails(3)
Hellrunner(3)
Brute(2)
Berserker(1)
Total level: 12

I'd like to add that imho if you are playing with chaingun and plasmagun, then you must use Eagle Eye level 2, because it allows you to remain coward all the time, and this can save your life.

[DaEezT]

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5 Beta 2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 DaEezT, level 9 Cacodemon Captain, killed by a lost soul
 on level 6 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 64069 turns and scored 131960 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 1046 out of 1145 hellspawn. (91%)
 He held his right to remain violent.
 He was an Angel of Haste!

 He stormed the Chained Court.

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/70   Experience 30883/9
  ToHit +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +6

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 2)
    Hellrunner     (Level 2)
    Tough as nails (Level 3)
    Brute          (Level 2)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [b] green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x74)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [j] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [k] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [l] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [m] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [n] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [o] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [p] 10mm ammo (x100)

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    35 former humans
    618 former sergeants
    220 former captains
    35 imps
    98 demons
    5 lost souls
    2 cacodemons
    1 hell knight
    1 pain elemental

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 4 he battled through a maze of rooms.
 He then stormed the Chained Court.
 On level 6 he battled through the complex.
 There he finally was killed by a lost soul.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 But there is nothing here!
 The hell knight hits you. You are bleeding! The imp fires! You are hit!
 You hit the hell knight. The hell knight dies. You lose blood! The lost
 soul hits you.
 Unknown command. Press "?" for help.
 Unknown command. Press "?" for help.
 You hit the pain elemental. The pain elemental is bleeding! You lose blood!
 The lost soul hits you. The pain elemental spawns lost souls! The pain
 elemental hits you. The pain elemental loses blood. The pain elemental
 dies. The lost soul hits you.
 You miss the imp. The bleeding stops. The lost soul hits you. The lost soul
 hits you. The imp hits you. Your green armor is completely destroyed!
 The imp fires! Boom!
 The lost soul hits you.
 The lost soul hits you. You die!...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 191 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 178 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 3 couldn't handle the stress and commited a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 6 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I goddamn hate it that even those stupid imps can destroy items with their splash. I just died because two berserk packs and one small health globe got destroyed by the imp/knight .....

and my scoreboard now looks like this

N 131960DaEezT        (L:9), killed by a lost soul on L6.
U 122606DaEezT        (L:11), killed by a Cyberdemon on L25.

L6 N! run is #1 and L25 UV run second :p

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

Umm... I think that the AoD kill option is off... the trigger mechanisms for all special levels are "All Killed", and not "Given Enemy Killed :/

[DaEezT]

Umm... I think that the AoD kill option is off... the trigger mechanisms for all special levels are "All Killed", and not "Given Enemy Killed :/

too bad. Apart from the imba Spear it also kinda makes the whole melee approach less useful, which is sad because the chainsaw really works well early on. But beating cybie with only 4d6 + brute and no extra armor... :/

Maybe I'll max out the defensive skills on my next try (only level9) and take Saab/Ee after that to help a bit with the chaingun and drop melee for now.

[DaEezT]

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5 Beta 2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 DaEezT, level 7 Cacodemon Captain, killed by a arch-vile
 on level 16 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 28693 turns and scored 96616 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 419 out of 635 hellspawn. (66%)
 He was an Angel of Haste!


-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health -2/70   Experience 21734/7
  ToHit +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 2)
    Hellrunner     (Level 2)
    Tough as nails (Level 3)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   protective boots [4/4] (89%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] red armor [4/4] (97%)
    [b] 10mm ammo (x75)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [j] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [k] power cell (x50)
    [l] small med-pack
    [m] small med-pack
    [n] small med-pack
    [o] large med-pack

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    19 former humans
    55 former sergeants
    110 former captains
    26 imps
    121 demons
    10 lost souls
    1 cacodemon
    3 barons of hell
    9 hell knights
    2 arachnotrons
    1 former commando
    3 pain elementals

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

 On level 2 he battled through the complex.
 On level 4 he battled through the complex.
 On level 6 he battled through the complex.
 On level 8 he battled through the complex.
 On level 10 he found a hellish city.
 On level 12 he battled through the complex.
 On level 14 he battled through the complex.
 On level 16 he found a hellish city.
 There he finally was killed by a arch-vile.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 The arch-vile raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames! The arch-vile
 raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames! The cacodemon fires!
 Boom! Argh!!! Lava!
 The arch-vile raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames!
 The arch-vile raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames! The arch-vile
 raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames!
 You use a large med-pack. You feel fully healed. The arch-vile raises his
 arms! You are engulfed in flames! The arch-vile raises his arms! You
 are engulfed in flames!
 The arch-vile raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames! The arch-vile
 raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames! The arch-vile raises his
 arms! You are engulfed in flames!
 The cacodemon fires! Boom! The arch-vile raises his arms! You are engulfed
 in flames! The arch-vile raises his arms! You are engulfed in flames!
 You die!...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 194 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 181 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 3 couldn't handle the stress and commited a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 6 souls claim to have killed him...
 6 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Three AVs hunted me down. The inv. globe I saw was destroyed by their attack and even the three large meds where useless because i was doen to 10% after two steps...

[Ugm]

I just came into an idea of destroying UC with a thermie. Is it possible? What about corpses? Do they appear after this small armageddon?

Another observation:

- Resurrection time seems to depend on monster toughness. I had to wait just a while for former human to resurrect, but Cacos or Knights were too lazy to respawn often (and I didn't want to move far away from their corspes ;) ).

[Blade]

I just came into an idea of destroying UC with a thermie. Is it possible? What about corpses? Do they appear after this small armageddon?

As i remember, no, they totally disappears after thermie. It will be possible if you will be so lucky to find thermie and inv globe just next to stairs to UC. It is hard a bit, because on Nightmare! it is no time to explore higher dlvls, you just trying to pass them. So personally i don't want to rely on such coincidence.

[DaEezT]

So personally i don't want to rely on such coincidence.

To me it's already pure luck if I make it past the 6th floor :p

[TFoN]

To me it's already pure luck if I make it past the 6th floor :p

"Pure luck"? You've made it to lvl7 on Malicious Knives, and for that I salute you (not to mention Blade :P )! Pure luck brought me to lvl3!
I've made it to lvl4 Nightmare! (unhasted) on my first and only try. Now, maybe that WAS luck. I'll let you know in a couple of days ;)

[Blade]

Damn, 6 times my marine gets clvl 10, and 6 times he died on dlvl 6!(( Kornel, please, make quantity of powerups that are spawned on Nightmare! difficulty equal to quantitiy on UV. With Ituition*3 i every time saw that there are only 2-3 small health globes on level 6, and sometimes supercharge surrounded by dozens of monsters.
And, people, please, post here your ideas about how to spend this 10 level, what perks are better for Nightmare!(tm).
My last order was: EE*2 -> Hellrunner*3 -> Intuition*3 -> IM*2

[DaEezT]

Damn, 6 times my marine gets clvl 10, and 6 times he died on dlvl 6!(( Kornel, please, make quantity of powerups that are spawned on Nightmare! difficulty equal to quantitiy on UV. With Ituition*3 i every time saw that there are only 2-3 small health globes on level 6, and sometimes supercharge surrounded by dozens of monsters.
And, people, please, post here your ideas about how to spend this 10 level, what perks are better for Nightmare!(tm).
My last order was: EE*2 -> Hellrunner*3 -> Intuition*3 -> IM*2

Kornel did change the item generation (especially small meds) in the Beta.

As for the traits. I still thing that Intuition(3) is a waste because
- you won't be clearing levels anyway
- it doesn't show you the exit
- it doesn't show the monster type
- there are also so many enemies that it doesn't really tell you anything new anyway :p

I always aim for Tan(3), Hr(3), Im(3) at 9 since you'll be going straight for the exit anyway.
after that I dunno. Killing monsters is pointless since you can't clear the levels so you should probably pick something that helps fighting cybie. For now I'd put my money on Ee because chaingun/plasma are most likely the only weapons you'll have.

[TFoN]

I've been continuing pretty fast, much before Exp10, maybe 4-5 (mostly spent on EE and TaN), so it isn't the perks keeping me alive most of the time.
Made it this way to lvl5 or so, regularly. Still, I've also been dying around that same level.

IMO the more are dead, the slower they come back - I'm guessing it's a universal timer.
I'm basing this mostly on the first Dlevel, where the first Sergeant seems to come back after a couple of steps, but the last one takes much longer.

Has anyone checked if doors prevent corpses?

And are you SURE LostSouls permadie? I'm quite certain I kept getting more of them in "cleared" rooms.

As far as intuition goes, try replacing it with Cateye. It's short-term, but like DaEezT said, they're everywhere.
On the other hand: the whole "monsters next room" thing makes it important, after all...

[Blade]

Has anyone checked if doors prevent corpses?

Yes, if monster dies on door, his corpse doesn't appears.

And are you SURE LostSouls permadie? I'm quite certain I kept getting more of them in "cleared" rooms.

Yes, Lost Souls never leaves corpses. But they are moving very fast, so maybe you haven't noticed, when they fly into the room.

[Styro]

Well, I had a REALLY lucky first try on Nightmare, although I still didn't win. I studied the strategies here and they made a big difference. I agree that Angel of Haste is a requirement. Also, you have to farm the first level until you at least make level 9.

I made it all the way to Cybie. I made it there by some luck - I found an Invulnerability globe that helped me through two levels. I also picked up a Phase Device that helped me past the Mortuary, which gave me two sets of red armor. I ended up facying the CD with 4 large medipacks, 2 red armors, 1 plasma rifle with no reloads, and 2 chainguns with tons of ammo (I was originally just wielding two chainguns so I could swap when I ran out of ammo).

I hardly ever fired a shot once I left the starting level. I picked off the occasional baddie, but most of all I just ran around looking for any set of down-stairs.

The end result was I had the CD at Mortally Wounded for a few turns with my chaingun, but I just couldn't finish him off before he killed me.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.8.5 Beta 3) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Styro-AoH, level 11 Cacodemon Captain, killed by a Cyberdemon
 on level 25 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 51186 turns and scored 223052 points.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 927 out of 1229 hellspawn. (75%)
 He was an Angel of Haste!

 He found the Phobos Arena.
 He faced The Wall.
 He was caught in the Mortuary!

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health -4/80   Experience 51600/11
  ToHit +3  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman        (Level 3)
    Hellrunner     (Level 3)
    Tough as nails (Level 3)
    Eagle Eye      (Level 1)
    Badass         (Level 1)

  Iro->Iro->Iro->TaN->TaN->HR->TaN->HR->HR->Bad->EE->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chaingun (1d6)x5 [40/50]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   steel boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   plasma rifle (1d8)x8 [0/40]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] chaingun (1d6)x5 [50/50]
    [b] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [c] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [j] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [k] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [l] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [m] rocket (x6)

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    135 former humans
    15 former sergeants
    230 former captains
    184 imps
    333 demons
    6 lost souls
    2 cacodemons
    2 hell knights

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 10 he witnessed the Wall.
  Not knowing what to do, he left.
  On level 22 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
  He managed to escape from the Mortuary!
  Then at last he found Phobos Arena!
  On level 25 he finally was killed by a Cyberdemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits
 the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the
 Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon is bleeding!
 You lose blood! The Cyberdemon hits you. The Cyberdemon loses blood.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits
 the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the
 Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. You lose blood! The Cyberdemon
 hits you. The Cyberdemon loses blood.
 You reload the chaingun with 10mm ammo. You lose blood! The Cyberdemon
 misses you. The Cyberdemon stops bleeding. The Cyberdemon hits you.
 The Cyberdemon hits you.
 Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits
 the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the
 Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. You lose blood! The Cyberdemon
 hits you. You die!...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 85 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 76 of those were killed.
 1 of those was killed by something unknown.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 7 souls claim to have killed him...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 6 killed the bastard and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------


[Blade]

Firstly - congratillations! I think you can kill him before me, because i don't have much time to play now. I know, it is really pity to made it so far, almost kill CD, and die from unluck.
Combination Hellrunner*3 -> IM*3 -> TaN*3 -> running to stairs without killing anything - is the key for this game. I played with such perks and made it sucessffully to level 14, where died with 2 large medpacks and phase devise from my greed.(stupid death, i know(( Only one thing that you must have to not only reach CD, but also kill him, is RL, and at least 10 rockets. If you have so, you will surelly win. I always supposed to get RL on level 24.
Or maybe EE*2 and staying coward during all fight can help greatly to hit him always, and to dodge his rockets.

[DaEezT]

wow! grats!

One idea that came to my mind about killing Cybie is to corpse camp a commando on lvl6 (if you can isolate one) until you have 6 rifles and then fire them on overload at Cybie.
6 rifles = 240 shots with 1 damage each so 200 have to hit which means 83.3% to hit and without EE but with tactics on agressive you already have 80+% so you probably only need Ee(1) to make this work.
And plasma on overload fires faster than chaingun (at least I think it dies :p) so less time for Cybie to hump you.

[Styro]

Yes, I wish that I had found a rocket launcher. I certainly would have won. I also think that commando-camping is a good idea. I always forget about overloading, but this is a perfect use for it.

Some other ideas I had were that intuition would have been very useful. There were one or two levels were I found the downstairs relatively quickly. I scouted a little in hopes of finding a powerup or medipack, but I was always worried about running into something nasty like an Arachnotron or Baron. With intuition I would know if there was a powerup just outside my visual range and I would know where the baddies were. It would have also helped enormously against the CD because I could have shot him offscreen very easily.

Some day when I have a few hours to burn I may try getting even more perks on the initial level. The problem is that everything after that is so luck dependant, I hate to spend an hour or two getting the Necessary Nine and then also getting 5 more so I have full intuition. Probably I would start the next level surrounded by Barons and die a quick death. That would be frustrating. :/

[Blade]

Don't try Intuition, belive me, it's a waste here. First 10 clvls you can get easily in one hour. And you will need one more hour for 5 more levels. It don't helps so much, if you read my post here, you will see, that i died 6 times with Intuition having clvl 10. So i spent 6 hours of my life pointlessly. And i don't wish you so.
You made it so far. What else do you need? Use one of our tips(get RL, or overloaded plasma rifles) and you will kill CD next time!

[TFoN]

Duuude, GREAT!
Goodluck man!
Do this enough and you'll anyway eventually luck-out on a nuke somewhere before CD :)
I'd say a N! partial win's just as good ^^