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[punkbohemian]

I've been playing the game for the past few days and am starting to conceptualize a pistol build. One of the elements about which I am considering is whether or not to dual wield. I would think that dual wielding would be better as there is more firepower, but I've read a few things about a Technician sharpshooter build that is just as effective, if not more so, with a single pistol (though I'm not sure how that works). Not to mention, DW also causes a lot of problems with weapon switching. With the character I'm running now, I have two pistols and a missile launcher. When I can switch to the launcher easy enough, but switching back to DW pistols requires a bunch of inventory juggling that involves dropping items if my inventory is full. In any event, I wonder if DW is worth it.

Random questions:

1) What does dodgemaster do exactly? I'm not sure I'm entirely sure how movement works outside of me pressing a button and moving in that direction.

2) How do you reload -while- moving? Is it something automatic that happens when you have an appropriate trait?

3) Running Man seems to suggest I can run and shoot at the same time, but I'm not sure how that is possible.

Thanks.

[Creepy]

Technician's single pistol build works because the pistol damage is always maximized. A technician is also likely to have a powerfully modded pistol; if you have even a single powermod on your gun, you will do knockback with every shot against nearly every enemy, and will almost never miss because of Eagle Eye. SoG improves firing rate, so you'll put a pile of shots into anyone before they manage to get close and keep them at bay at the same time. Being a single weapon means you don't need both hands, so you can use an ammo box for rapid reloads, which reduces one of the biggest problems in pistol builds. The build takes time to hit it's peak, but when you're there it gives you a hideous amount of control over the battlefield. You can literally push around anything short of the Cyberdemon or Spidermind.

DW hits the sweet spot earlier; DW is available to anyone as early as level 3, instead of level 7. You double the damage you've been doing, right there. It doesn't come as a single attack, so no pushing enemies around the battlefield, but you can more easily KILL them at that point than a Sharpshooter could.

Anyway.

1) Dodgemaster: If you move in a direction other than directly toward/directly away from an opponent that shoots at you, they can miss based on your dodging chances (and some otherstuff). Dodgemaster makes it so they WILL miss, automatically. Just move as you want, and as long as it wasn't in the direct line the enemy was shooting in, you'll be considered dodging automatically.

2) Reloading while you move requires Shottyman (for shotguns), and it's automatic. Otherwise you reload by pressing 'r'.

3) "Running" is essentially a power-up mode you get by pressing tab. You get extra dodge chance and take less time moving between tiles, but your accuracy and melee-attack damage go down. Eventually you get tired and things go back to normal, and can't use Running again until you either get to the next level or use a healing item. This is not the same as just moving normally.

[shark20061]

With the character I'm running now, I have two pistols and a missile launcher. When I can switch to the launcher easy enough, but switching back to DW pistols requires a bunch of inventory juggling that involves dropping items if my inventory is full.

You can equip from the inventory screen (just highlight the item and press Enter or press the letter of the slot) to swap weapons faster, or from the equipment screen, highlight the item and press Tab to swap the equipped item out for one in your backpack.  If you already have all the items equipped/in you backpack, you don't have to drop anything to switch equipment.

[punkbohemian]

Ok, so I've worked out a couple MSs build possibilities and could use a critique. Here they are:

SoG>SoG>SoG>EE>EE>EE>MSs>Int>Int>Wk>Wk

EE>EE>Int>Int>SoG>SoG>SoG>EE>MSs>Wk>Wk

I've actually been playing with the first one and haven't been able to get past the armory. By that point, I'm easily getting the shit kicked out of me. I even died in the Arena once. That's why I thought of the second build. The rush to Int2 is for the tactical advantage. I do realize I lose a good deal of firepower putting off SoG for so long, but I don't see any other way to get an edge. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Ashannar]

Depends. Are you playing angel of marksmanship? If not, don't shun the other weapons. Your shotgun will generally be your bread and butter weapon for the first half of the game. Get comfortable with radar shooting (that is, firing your shotgun into the distance to potentially tag enemies beyond your sight range). The shotgun is the best at this because of its spread. Once you hit an enemy, it will generally make its way right toward you, at which point you can take it on with your pistols once it comes into view.

You might try Gun Kata or Pistol Dance, as well. Dual gunner makes a world of difference. As for your builds, they're both all right. Both have their advantages. Just keep in mind their strengths. In your first build, you generally want to stand your ground and fire fire fire at enemies, because firing your weapon is what you're the fastest at. If you move around too much, you'll lose that advantage. The second one is more of a sniper build. You'll want to plink away at enemies from beyond sight range. Aimed shot is a good choice here for the extra chance to hit (alt fire for most pistols).

[ih8regin]

man, how do you get past Arena? (Shotguns? If yes, then what should I do if I'm on AoMr?)

[punkbohemian]

Depends. Are you playing angel of marksmanship?

Yeah, I unlocked it, so I figure I might as well since I'm toying with a pistol build.

You might try Gun Kata or Pistol Dance, as well. Dual gunner makes a world of difference.

My original plans involved a GK and DW build, but I'm finding myself in a lot of situations where GK wouldn't be any help (i.e. narrow hallways). As for DG, I figured that since its usefulness peters out in the long run, it wasn't really worth the investment.

In your first build, you generally want to stand your ground and fire fire fire at enemies, because firing your weapon is what you're the fastest at.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing, and getting smacked around. Even by sarges with shottys, the knockback messes up my position and they tend not to follow. So, I have to charge in again, sometimes taking another hit.

man, how do you get past Arena?

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I have. I think that, except for the one time I did die, I skipped out of the final round. When I did stick around, I was using medpacks like every turn just to stay alive, though I still bit it in the end.

[Murkglow]

man, how do you get past Arena? (Shotguns? If yes, then what should I do if I'm on AoMr?)

AoMr, at least on lower difficulties, isn't really any different then how you would do it normally.  You want to learn to corner shoot (just like you would with a shotgun).  By the time you get to Arena you should have SoG 2 or be close to it and by that point it's simply a matter of emptying your clip into them without them hitting you (again same strategy as you use for a shotgun just obviously the shotgun needs reloading every shot).

Kinda like this:

O
.  XXXX
.  X
.  X
.  @

With SoG 2 you should be able to kill a Caco or Demon before they get to you.  If not just hit Tab to start running and circle the pillar.

Of course all this assumes SoG is what you pick up early on (it's what I would recommend).  If you felt like you had to get EE early then you're going to have to do alot more running and firing blindly into darkness since you likely won't be killing them as they walk toward you nearly as easily.

As for DG, I figured that since its usefulness peters out in the long run, it wasn't really worth the investment.

Umm what makes you think DG loses usefulness?  Unless you're going Sharpshooter (in which case DG isn't allowed anyway) DG is plenty useful...

[ih8regin]

yeah, I did pass Arena on HNTR and HMP AoMr (once each), but so far am constantly failing at UV.

[Ashannar]

It sounds like you're not using tactical defense, because you're saying things like "MGK doesn't help because I'm often in hallways" and that you get shot at a lot. Especially if you have intuition 2, there's no reason to get shot, ever, unless you get double- or triple-teamed from multiple directions. There are many ways to position yourself such that you can shoot at enemies but they cannot shoot you back.

Also, consider tagging an enemy with the help of int 2 and then retreating to suitable cover. If the monster loses interest and wanders off before you get him where you want him, you may have to tag him again to drag him where you want. This is child's play with int 2, and possible without if you have patience.

[Creepy]

I've actually been playing with the first one and haven't been able to get past the armory

With a couple of levels of EE the Armory is very easy, and you'll probably have that much by the time you get to it. You don't even really have to walk very far; hole up in the doorway of one of the buildings with the former humans in it and start shooting blindly down the hallway until the screaming stops. Since the Armory almost entirely a single tile-wide straight path, you can kill nearly everything in the level without having to actually be anywhere near them. If you're lucky one of the critters on the far end will let out the Arachnotrons, and you can kill them along with everything else. If not you can always blast open the doors and boogy back to cover, and then go back to shooting down the hall. Either way, the level isn't much more than a shooting gallery.

Never underestimate the power of shooting at targets in the black. Tripping over a map and being able to see all the baddies makes a level dead simple if you have the accuracy to start sniping.

[Murkglow]

yeah, I did pass Arena on HNTR and HMP AoMr (once each), but so far am constantly failing at UV.

Have you watched Game Hunter's videos (there is a sticky on the forum with a link to his youtube page)?  Those might help you out.  He has both a AoMr UV Gun Kata run and a AoLT HMP Sharpshooter run.  If nothing else they'll give you an idea of how the builds work (to an extent).  Of course both are slightly outdated (they were made in version 9.9.4) but still the main idea behind how it works stays the same (and both get you past Arena with nothing but a pistol).  He has tutorials and such as well (again a bit outdated) so if that interests you by all means check them out.  I enjoyed watching them when I was first starting to play the game (heck who am I kidding I still enjoy watching them they are entertaining).

[ih8regin]

AoLT pistol run is likely easier, even if you get stringent with the ammo chain, because that boost of 20% is a great lot. Still, NO I wasn't watching them yet, mainly because being behind a proxy while being at these forums, and spending my free time (not much of it lately) actually playing :) And while I might do with MGK base (maybe taking HR as second trait, as it's needed for MGK anyway), I am targetting self to MSs as I don't yet understand how to get that high without straying off the build path.

[Murkglow]

Up to Hell's Arena the Gun Kata run isn't any different then a Sharpshooter run (he just gets SoGs, no HR or DG or anything) so you can still learn how to do UV Hell's Area with a MSs build from the run (since up to that point they are exactly the same).  Still it's up to you.  If you can't or don't want to watch then that's fine.

[Ashannar]

The most disappointing thing to me, as someone who really got into this game in 0.9.9.6, is that you can't just fire into the middle of a given level and kill everything like in Game Hunter's tutorials since the AI has been changed. I suppose I should be thankful that the game is more challenging now. :)