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Author Topic: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)  (Read 23473 times)

Ander Hammer

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2012, 06:39 »

The other one is closer, but you have to open the door

Open it the way men do: with a gun.
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ih8regin

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2012, 07:19 »

One of the tricks there are, you can shoot prior to ever triggering the ambush, and you will blast that door open. While I personally would like to make it closeable, so say I whack them souls/demons back and close the door in their face. But with AoMr you're IMHO better to blast it open.
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Klear

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2012, 07:42 »

Yeah, I know. I usually prefer to keep the door closable, and to barricade myself in a room with healing available. There's still the matter of lost souls spawning closer to the right door and that the cacodemons will be able to attack you as well, but that might be advantageous in ridding yourself of the lost souls. I only tried it in AoHu recently, where the left door was definitely the way to go, since any damage was potentialy deadly.
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AlterAsc

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2012, 08:22 »

One of the ways is wear red armor and take Ber(or be in berserk through berserk pack) and rocket jump.You'll take 1 dmg from the jump(if you're on AoHu), kill some of the lost souls and no longer be surrounded.
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Klear

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2012, 08:38 »

Yeah. I hear that berserker is great for AoHu, since it triggers all the time (as long as you don't die).

I was trying to get the untouchable medals at the same time though, so I went for fully tactical defence (which in the case of anomaly means run like hell).
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skarczew

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2012, 11:47 »

Those bastards are fast. There's no way I could ever outrun one of them, even with max speed. I hate lost souls with a passion. I'm planning to build an energy pistol when I find the mods, if only for those bastards.
You could try whacking Kornel with giant pink rubber dildo. Maybe it would help to change (again) Lost Souls. I dislike their current form as well.
Alternatively, try playing on UV.
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punkbohemian

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2012, 13:53 »

Quote
Try investing a point into hellrunner. You'll probably want to have dodgemaster before cybie.

I'd do that if I was going for MGK, but for other builds, I have too many other trait obligations. As is, by the time I get to the bruiser brothers, I have only 4-5 traits under my belt. How many levels can one expect to get by endgame (per difficulty, of course) anyway?

I had considered developing a defense-oriented build (both active and passive, probably no master traits), but I haven't been terribly motivated to toy with the idea.

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BTW, you must go towards the door you came from.

That's always my plan. This way I have access to a couple health globes if I need them.

Quote
One of the ways is wear red armor and take Ber(or be in berserk through berserk pack) and rocket jump.

Two problems with that. One, Ber is kind of a waste of a trait with a pistol build. Two, I can't use a rocket launcher playing AoMr.

Side note, does vampire work with ranged weapons? I'm guessing not.

Quote
Alternatively, try playing on UV.

How would that help? I'm getting my ass handed to me just on normal.

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Klear

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2012, 14:50 »

How would that help? I'm getting my ass handed to me just on normal.

Well, on HMP and UV there are not lost souls in the anomaly (replaced by demons), but everything else is more challenging, so it's not really a good idea.

I assume you've played a couple of games by now... haven't you found any phase devices yet? I know it's not a good plan to rely on a random drop to pass a level, but I'm curious if you managed to pass the anomaly like this already.
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shark20061

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2012, 16:07 »

How many levels can one expect to get by endgame (per difficulty, of course) anyway?

That's a hard question to answer, but I've figured it out up to the Anomaly, but first, the assumption list:

* 100% kills on all levels.
* You play all the specials and get 100% kills (in this case, Arena, (Un)Chained Court, and Wall).
* No caves (reduces XP) or mazes (increases XP).
* The assumed amount of XP is based on average XP / Danger point, and as such can fluctuate.
* No vaults (which spawn extra enemies, and thus increase XP)

Anyway, here you go, expected level at Start of Anomaly (Floor 8), by Difficulty:
ITYTD: 8,645 XP = Lv 5 / 41%
HNTR: 10,896 XP = Lv 5 / 98%
HMP: 12,761 XP = Lv 6 / 35%
UV: 18,381 XP = Lv 7 / 39%
N!: 24,767 XP = Lv 8 / 34%

For those interested, the calculations (spoilered because they take some space)

Spoiler: Calculations (click to show/hide)
Edit: Fixed a small display error.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 22:07 by shark20061 »
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punkbohemian

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2012, 18:01 »

Quote
haven't you found any phase devices yet?

Sometimes. I would say I'd find them in about 25% of my games by the time I get to that level. It's strange. If I do find them, I find quite a few (at least 2-3), otherwise nothing.

I think I need to reconsider my defense (or lack thereof). I have no active or passive defense, just tactical, which I think is weaker w/o Int or MCe. It kinda makes me want to either ditch pistol masters entirely and go MCe (for stronger tactical), or go MGK for some form of active defense.

@shark: Thanks for the stats, but I was wondering about endgame (so I could plan ahead). I had a pretty solid guess about anomaly, what with how often my AoMr characters die there. :P
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 18:03 by punkbohemian »
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shark20061

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2012, 13:58 »

Endgame, eh?  Well I took my calculations out to endgame to figure out what it would be.  Assumption list:

* 100% kills on all levels
* Played all specials, including Mortuary.
* No caves (reduces XP) or mazes (increases XP)
* No vaults (spawns additional enemies, which increases XP)
* Random level XP is based on a XP/danger point value, which I've chosen 3 values to reflect the changes in each episode (which should give a rough calculation).

The short story:

XP and Level by Floor 24 (Dis), By difficulty:

ITYTD: 47,910 -- Level 10 / 79%
HNTR: 69,244 -- Level 12 / 92%
HMP: 81,238 -- Level 14 / 6%
UV: 113,168 -- Level 15 / 65%
N!: 154,921 -- Level 17 / 74%

The calcuations:

Spoiler: ITYTD (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: HNTR (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: HMP (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: UV (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: N! (click to show/hide)
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punkbohemian

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2012, 21:35 »

Wow, shark, well done. Thanks.
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shark20061

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2012, 01:41 »

...but I'm not quite done yet...

I have: The long story.  The breakdown of each floor and what level you would be under the previous assumptions.  I add one more assumption for these tables:

* Special floors that can appear on 1 of 2 different floors are assumed to appear on the later floor.

Alright, here goes the tables, spoilered again because it's huge.  When level changes, it's highlighted.

Spoiler: ITYTD (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: HNTR (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: HMP (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: UV (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: N! (click to show/hide)
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punkbohemian

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2012, 18:04 »

You really do your homework. Maybe that's why I suck at RL, I need to commit more. :D
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spacedust

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Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2012, 22:03 »

Shark's tables ought to be stickied, or put up on the wiki. They are awesome!
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