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Author Topic: The Inferno Module  (Read 26740 times)

mihey1993

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2015, 14:11 »

So, what happened with the plans to move module on new release?
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Cyberdemon Br.General
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tehtmi

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #106 on: March 06, 2017, 02:33 »

So, I've been AWOL for... a while. Um, sorry about that :(

But, development on Inferno has restarted. You can follow the progress here: https://sourceforge.net/p/drlinferno/

Currently, porting to 0.9.9.7 is still ongoing. (However, the current tip should run mostly successfully in 0.9.9.7 without major issues.)

It's been a while since I worked on it, but things seem to be going smoothly so far. Not sure how much time I'll have to spend on it, but I'm hoping for an official 0.9.9.7-compatible release in the near future.
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #107 on: March 06, 2017, 06:36 »

\o/
Looks like I had lost hope prematurely.

Glad to read that :)
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #108 on: March 06, 2017, 22:05 »

Yay!  :D  I'd love to play this mod in 0.9.9.7!  :D

Currently, porting to 0.9.9.7 is still ongoing. (However, the current tip should run mostly successfully in 0.9.9.7 without major issues.)

I'm not quite sure what you mean here; is there a mostly running version posted somewhere?  Do you need help testing?  In any case, I think it would be fun to make a recording of myself playing through it.  :)
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tehtmi

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #109 on: March 06, 2017, 22:32 »

I'm not quite sure what you mean here; is there a mostly running version posted somewhere?

Currently, some assembly is required, but you can run it if you want. Go to the code tab of the previously linked sourceforge repository. There should be a "download snapshot" link that will give you a zip. Combine the contents with the sounds folder from 0.15.1 raw version and you should get a working build. (Folder named inferno.module.)

Do you need help testing?

Currently, it's getting constantly updated as I'm working on it, so it might not stay completely stable. Testing is always greatly appreciated, but it's more useful after I get more work done and am closer to finishing. At that point I will probably upload a real build to dropbox and solicit testers. (But feel free to try it out anyway if you want to.)
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #110 on: March 06, 2017, 23:25 »

Cool!  :)  I just gave it a whirl and it works fine so far.  Thanks!  :)
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2017, 15:36 »

So, I've been trying to make a good video of this mod for a while, without much success.  At first, I played at N! difficulty, but then I decided that maybe a nice Conqueror UV game would make a better first video.  :)  I had trouble figuring out what build to use; at first I tried a Malicious Blades build, but I was at level 6, one level shy of getting the master trait, by the time I reached Blood Temple, (the melee-only level) so that's no good.  Then I thought I'd try a Sharpshooter build with a detour to Berserker trait along the way, aiming to get it by level 6, except that this time, I reached Blood Temple by level 5, so that didn't work either.  :|  (I guess there's some variability in how experienced you are by that point)  I tried other games where I mixed up the build a bit, including Army of the Dead build and masterless builds, but in the end, I decided to go with my old favourite, the Vampyre build, which I won with before, and I was considerably more successful.  :)

I intended to break it up into 2 or 3 videos, but...  I encountered a serious bug that ended the run prematurely.  :o  I saved the game at the end of the first session, which was 2 hours, and when I reloaded the game for the second session, I had no inventory or equipment!  O_o  See for yourself:

Spoiler: Mortem (click to show/hide)

Here's the first 2 hour video,

and here's the conclusion.  (Such as it is)

These weren't the only bugs I encountered.  Some are visible in the above mortem, such as the fact that it shows three question marks in the place where it's supposed to say how I died, (It does this for every game I play of this mod) and the fact that is says "Level 0" for all event descriptions.  Another minor thing:  The ingame list of how many enemies I killed is mostly accurate, but it goes haywire whenever I encounter any Spectres.  I suspect that this is due to some hacky way of making the Spectres appear and disappear by making them *actually* appear and disappear.  (ie. each time they phase in and out, the game considers them a new monster)

Despite these bugs, though, it remains one of my favourite mods for DRL.  :)  I still would really like to play a proper game with a non-melee build at some point to see how it plays with ranged weapons and to see what some of the special levels are like without a red screen.  :P  (Seriously, you can see in the video how easily I plowed through Erebus and the Singularity on my berserk rampage with the Chainsaw and I don't think that's a fair test of what those special levels are like)
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tehtmi

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2017, 23:41 »

I encountered a serious bug that ended the run prematurely.

First off, very sorry :((( I think I was able to fix it, but this was a pretty bad oversight.

But, thank you for playing! I'm excited to watch the video, but don't have time tonight. Seeing how people approach the game is always interesting to me (and, hopefully, useful as well). And the written feedback is also very welcome :)

I also don't think you were playing with all the latest development changes from sourceforge, but I'll comment in more detail.

I had trouble figuring out what build to use; at first I tried a Malicious Blades build, but I was at level 6, one level shy of getting the master trait, by the time I reached Blood Temple, (the melee-only level) so that's no good.  Then I thought I'd try a Sharpshooter build with a detour to Berserker trait along the way, aiming to get it by level 6, except that this time, I reached Blood Temple by level 5, so that didn't work either.  :|  (I guess there's some variability in how experienced you are by that point)

Yeah, Blood Temple is not really designed with conquering in mind, especially on UV. I have an idea for some changes that may make it more possible without a melee build (but still somewhat punishing), but probably not for the next version.

Also, it looks like the version you're playing has old placeholder experience values. I'd been meaning to do an experience revamp for this version. The experience curve in the version you played is exponential, which actually gives a lot of levels early, but will fall off badly later on.

The new version should have a more even spread of experience levels per dungeon level and hit somewhere in the 11 to 13 range at the end of the game. That means a lot fewer levels overall compared to previous versions of Inferno, though, so I may be too harsh. (For example, I think you'll hit UV Blood Temple at about 4.5 with this curve if YAAMing.) There is still some variability, though.

Some are visible in the above mortem, such as the fact that it shows three question marks in the place where it's supposed to say how I died

I didn't notice this before. Should be fixed now. (Looks like this got revamped somewhat in 0.9.9.7.)

and the fact that is says "Level 0" for all event descriptions.

I think should already have been fixed if you were playing the latest...

Another minor thing:  The ingame list of how many enemies I killed is mostly accurate, but it goes haywire whenever I encounter any Spectres.  I suspect that this is due to some hacky way of making the Spectres appear and disappear by making them *actually* appear and disappear.  (ie. each time they phase in and out, the game considers them a new monster)

That's pretty accurate. But, I did revisit spectres, so this should have already been fixed in the latest version. However, there's still a similar problem if you visit a basement before clearing a level. Probably most people won't do this, though, so it is not as big of a problem. Probably not possible to fix either (although the mortem should adjust the numbers to account for enemies that "shouldn't count").

Aside, I'm pretty happy with where things stand now for the next release (horrible bugs notwithstanding). Things have stalled a little bit, as I've been trying to find some more time to do proper test runs, but I hope to do a proper release soon. My main concern (besides bugs) is the impact of the experience changes. There's probably a pretty good chance I'll bump up the experience rewards a little bit before release, but it will, of course, depend on testing and feedback.
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2017, 04:51 »

I also don't think you were playing with all the latest development changes from sourceforge...

Oops!  That didn't even occur to me!  :o  I downloaded it on March 6th and have been playing that version ever since.  I'll have to re-download before I try again.  :)

Yeah, Blood Temple is not really designed with conquering in mind, especially on UV. I have an idea for some changes that may make it more possible without a melee build (but still somewhat punishing), but probably not for the next version.

I'm glad you're thinking of changing it, because as it is, it's pretty much impossible to get Conqueror without a melee build.  (Or getting berserker at the beginning before your build)  Blood Temple just comes too early for you to properly prepare for it in my opinion.

Also, it looks like the version you're playing has old placeholder experience values. I'd been meaning to do an experience revamp for this version. The experience curve in the version you played is exponential, which actually gives a lot of levels early, but will fall off badly later on.

Ah, I *thought* I was getting experience rather slowly.  I'm glad to hear that wasn't just my imagination.  :D

My main concern (besides bugs) is the impact of the experience changes. There's probably a pretty good chance I'll bump up the experience rewards a little bit before release, but it will, of course, depend on testing and feedback.

Then I shall have to do some more testing and feedback for you!  :D  (Starting with testing the save feature)  :P
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tehtmi

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #114 on: April 30, 2017, 03:22 »

Got through with the video. (Thanks again for making it!)

I've made fixes for the mancubus sound issue and the issue with cinder lava being hidden by an item.

You also mentioned it was weird that the blue text appeared even though there were still enemies spawning. I've gone back and forth on this before. I feel like current behavior sort of matches classic DRL, as it's possible there for enemies to spawn after the level is clear by the summon lever, and it works roughly the same way. I also was a little bit concerned that people might think be in a position where they believe they've cleared the whole map, but actually there is a untriggered spawn hiding somewhere, and a felt that would be frustrating. (It's also kind of hard to implement things so that the level won't turn blue, but that's not really the point...)
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #115 on: May 01, 2017, 01:02 »

Oh, cool, you really did watch my video!  Thanks!  :D  I feel validated!  :D

Well, as for the blue text/enemy spawning issue, I guess as long as it doesn't hurt your kill count to not trigger the spawning, it's okay.  (Come to think of it, do the spawned enemies give you experience?  I don't think I ever checked)
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tehtmi

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2017, 01:39 »

Currently they do give experience. I guess that's a point in favor of making them count for blue text.
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2017, 08:13 »

Ah, then yes, I suppose it could be potentially frustrating?  But then again, as it is, it could just be considered a bonus you get for exploring.  Your call, really.
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Tormuse

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #118 on: May 08, 2017, 02:03 »

I have a question...

Also, it looks like the version you're playing has old placeholder experience values. I'd been meaning to do an experience revamp for this version. The experience curve in the version you played is exponential, which actually gives a lot of levels early, but will fall off badly later on.

I kind of thought you meant that you level up too slowly in the previous version and that you were changing that, but...  In the version that's up right now, (that I'm playing) I can complete the first two dungeon levels at UV without leveling up at all, (when I would have leveled up at least once on the first level) and I'm at character level 3 when I reach Spawning Pits.  (When I would've been level 4 or 5 in the previous version)  In other words, I'm leveling up even more slowly than the already slow pace.  I thought your above-quoted post was suggesting that you were going to make it so players level up faster, but the reverse seems to be true.  Is it a bug or did I just misunderstand?
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tehtmi

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Re: The Inferno Module
« Reply #119 on: May 09, 2017, 01:54 »

These values are rough estimates, and also not always consistent from run to run. (Although the current iteration of 0.16 should be more consistent than early 0.16 or previous versions.)

Early 0.16 numbers are clearly broken. It is basically impossible to get past level 8 or 9 even at the end of the game. UV gives quite a lot of levels early on, but later you basically stop leveling up. Lower difficulties give far less EXP, so it was basically impossible to level up. (Admittedly, these numbers are a bit conservative.)

Early 0.16 UV (not finished place-holder values):
EXP levelDungeon level
22
33
44
55
69
714
822
9never

Early 0.16 HNTR (not finished place-holder values):
EXP levelDungeon level
24
36
49
513
619
7never

The current iteration spreads out the early levels more than UV in early 0.16, but HNTR is still faster early on. Both UV and HNTR are much faster to gain levels later on. There is much less of a different between UV and HNTR (meaning UV enemies give much less experience than HNTR enemies).

There's two possible things that could be wrong here. One: I'm being too mean, and players should gain more levels overall, or more levels early on, or whatever compared to what I've listed in these tables. (It sounds like this is probably true...) Two: Experience values could be falling short of these expected benchmarks.

Current 0.16 HNTR
EXP levelDungeon level
23
35
47
510
612
715
817
919
1022
1124
12never

Current 0.16 UV
EXP levelDungeon level
23
35
47
59
611
713
815
917
1019
1121
12never

For 0.15, I'm reporting fairly conservative numbers again. HNTR numbers should only a bit more generous in 0.15, but the current numbers are spread out more evenly across dungeon levels. UV EXP levels for 0.15 will be much higher, as I wasn't doing any adjustment for the massive number of enemies. I believe that UV was giving out too much experience in this version.

0.15 HNTR
EXP levelDungeon level
22
32
45
56
68
710
813
915
1018
1121
1224
13never

0.15 UV
EXP levelDungeon level
22
32
43
54
65
77
88
910
1012
1114
1215
1317
1419
1522
1624
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